Quote: FP123 wrote in post #15

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #10

---

There is a tiny house movement that is not about government forcing people to live in much smaller places. A lot of people are doing it as a lifestyle choice. Some of the designs are quite good and utilize every bit of space in a way that doesn't feel like a cramped jail cell at all.

---

We've had this discussion in another thread here in the past. The government plans have nothing to do with the "tiny house" movement.

---

Overcrowding = excessive population density = behavioral sink.

[from the paper]

RESULTS

It is important to keep in mind that the density of the rats was not extreme; in fact, it was quite moderate. If the
rats wanted to spread out, there would only have to be 20 or so per pen. But this is not what happened. When
the male rats reached maturity, they began to fight with each other for social status as they do naturally. These
fights took place in all the pens, but the outcome was not the same for all of them. If you think about the
arrangement of the room, the two end-pens only had one way in and out. So when a rat won a battle for
dominance in one of these pens, he could hold his position and territory (the whole pen) simply by guarding the
entrance and attacking any other male that ventured over the ramp. As it turned out, only one male rat ended up
in charge of each of the end-pens. However, he was not alone. The female rats distributed themselves more or
less equally over all four pens. Therefore, the masters of pens 1 and 4 each had a harem of 8 to 12 females all to
themselves. And they didn't take any chances. In order to prevent infiltration, the males took to sleeping directly
at the foot of the ramp and were always on guard.

On occasion, there were a few other male rats in the end-pens, but they were extremely submissive.
They spent most of their time in the nesting burrows with the females and only came out to feed. They did not
attempt to mate with the females. The females in these pens functioned well as mothers. They built comfortable
nests and nurtured and protected their offspring. In other words, life for most of the rats in these end-pens was
relatively normal and reproductive behavior was successful. About half of the infant rats in those pens survived
to adulthood.

The rest of the 60 or so rats crowded into the middle two pens. Since these two pens each had central
feeding and watering devices, there were many opportunities for the rats to come in contact with each other. The
kinds of behaviors observed among the rats in pens 2 and 3 demonstrate a phenomenon that Calhoun termed the
behavioral sink. A behavioral sink is "the outcome of any behavioral process that collects animals together in
unusually great numbers. The unhealthy connotations of the term are not accidental: A behavioral sink does act
to aggravate all forms of pathology that can be found within a group" (p. 144). Let's examine some of the
extreme and pathological behaviors he observed:

1. Aggression. Normally in the wild, male rats will fight other male rats for dominant positions in the social
hierarchy. These fights were observed among the more aggressive rats in this study as well. The
difference was that here, unlike in their natural environments, top-ranking males were required to fight
frequently in order to maintain their positions and often the fights involved several rats in a general
brawl. Nevertheless, the strongest males were observed to be the most normal within the center pens.
However, even those animals would sometimes exhibit "signs of pathology; going berserk; attacking
females, juveniles, and less active males; and showing a particular predilection—which rats do not
normally display—for biting other rats on the tail" (p. 146).

2. Submissiveness. Contrary to this extreme aggression, other groups of male rats ignored and avoided
battles for dominance. One of these groups consisted of the most healthy-looking rats in the pens. They
were fat and their fur was full, without the usual bare spots from fighting. However, these rats were
complete social misfits. They moved through the pens as if asleep or in some sort of hypnotic trance,
ignoring all others, and were, in turn, ignored by the rest. They were completely uninterested in sexual
activity and made no advances, even toward females in heat.

Another group of rats engaged in extreme activity and were always on the prowl for receptive females.
Calhoun termed them probers. Often, they were attacked by the more dominant males, but were never
interested in fighting for status. They were hypersexual and many of them even became cannibalistic!

3. Sexual deviance. These probers also refused to participate in the natural rituals of mating. Normally, a
male rat will pursue a female in heat until she escapes into her burrow. Then, the male will wait
patiently and even perform a courtship dance directly outside her door. Finally, she emerges from the
burrow and the mating takes place. In Calhoun's study, this ritual was adhered to by most of the
sexually active males except the probers. They completely refused to wait and followed the female right
into her burrow. Sometimes the nests inside the burrow contained young that had failed to survive, and
it was here that late in the study the probers turned cannibalistic.

Another group of male rats was termed the pansexuals because they attempted to mate with any and all
other rats indiscriminately. They sexually approached other males, juveniles, and females that were not
in heat. This was a submissive group that was often attacked by the more dominant male rats, but did
not fight for dominance.

4. Reproductive abnormalities. Rats have a natural instinct for nest building. In this study, small strips of
paper were provided in unlimited quantities as nest material. The females are normally extremely active
in the process of building nests as the time for giving birth approaches. They gather the material and pile
it up so that it forms a cushion. Then they arrange the nest so that it has a small indentation in the
middle to hold the young. However, the females in the behavioral sink gradually lost their ability (or
inclination) to build adequate nests. At first they failed to form the indentation in the middle. Then, as
time went on, they collected fewer and fewer strips of paper so that eventually the infants were born
directly on the sawdust that covered the pen's floor.

The mother rats also lost their maternal ability to transport their young from one place to another if they
felt the presence of danger. They would move some of the litter and forget the rest, or simply drop them onto the
floor as they were moving them. Usually these infants were abandoned and died where they were dropped. They
were then eaten by the adults. The infant mortality rate in the middle pens was extremely high, ranging from
80% to 96%.

In addition to these maternal deficits, the female rats in the middle pens, when in heat, were chased by
large groups of males until they were finally unable to escape. These females experienced high rates of
complications in pregnancy and delivery. By the end of the study, almost half of them had died.
(Snip)

http://www.edmondschools.net/Portals/3/d...AD-Crowding.pdf

Quote: FP123 wrote in post #15

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #10

---

There is a tiny house movement that is not about government forcing people to live in much smaller places. A lot of people are doing it as a lifestyle choice. Some of the designs are quite good and utilize every bit of space in a way that doesn't feel like a cramped jail cell at all.

---

We've had this discussion in another thread here in the past. The government plans have nothing to do with the "tiny house" movement.

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #18

---

[quote=FP123|p15421]
Bloomberg is an idiot but considering the space issues in NYC I can't see this option as a bad thing. You know, not everything is a government conspiracy.

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #17

---

Overcrowding = excessive population density = behavioral sink.

[from the paper]

RESULTS

It is important to keep in mind that the density of the rats was not extreme; in fact, it was quite moderate. If the
rats wanted to spread out, there would only have to be 20 or so per pen. But this is not what happened. When
the male rats reached maturity, they began to fight with each other for social status as they do naturally. These
fights took place in all the pens, but the outcome was not the same for all of them. If you think about the
arrangement of the room, the two end-pens only had one way in and out. So when a rat won a battle for
dominance in one of these pens, he could hold his position and territory (the whole pen) simply by guarding the
entrance and attacking any other male that ventured over the ramp. As it turned out, only one male rat ended up
in charge of each of the end-pens. However, he was not alone. The female rats distributed themselves more or
less equally over all four pens. Therefore, the masters of pens 1 and 4 each had a harem of 8 to 12 females all to
themselves. And they didn't take any chances. In order to prevent infiltration, the males took to sleeping directly
at the foot of the ramp and were always on guard.

On occasion, there were a few other male rats in the end-pens, but they were extremely submissive.
They spent most of their time in the nesting burrows with the females and only came out to feed. They did not
attempt to mate with the females. The females in these pens functioned well as mothers. They built comfortable
nests and nurtured and protected their offspring. In other words, life for most of the rats in these end-pens was
relatively normal and reproductive behavior was successful. About half of the infant rats in those pens survived
to adulthood.

The rest of the 60 or so rats crowded into the middle two pens. Since these two pens each had central
feeding and watering devices, there were many opportunities for the rats to come in contact with each other. The
kinds of behaviors observed among the rats in pens 2 and 3 demonstrate a phenomenon that Calhoun termed the
behavioral sink. A behavioral sink is "the outcome of any behavioral process that collects animals together in
unusually great numbers. The unhealthy connotations of the term are not accidental: A behavioral sink does act
to aggravate all forms of pathology that can be found within a group" (p. 144). Let's examine some of the
extreme and pathological behaviors he observed:

1. Aggression. Normally in the wild, male rats will fight other male rats for dominant positions in the social
hierarchy. These fights were observed among the more aggressive rats in this study as well. The
difference was that here, unlike in their natural environments, top-ranking males were required to fight
frequently in order to maintain their positions and often the fights involved several rats in a general
brawl. Nevertheless, the strongest males were observed to be the most normal within the center pens.
However, even those animals would sometimes exhibit "signs of pathology; going berserk; attacking
females, juveniles, and less active males; and showing a particular predilection—which rats do not
normally display—for biting other rats on the tail" (p. 146).

2. Submissiveness. Contrary to this extreme aggression, other groups of male rats ignored and avoided
battles for dominance. One of these groups consisted of the most healthy-looking rats in the pens. They
were fat and their fur was full, without the usual bare spots from fighting. However, these rats were
complete social misfits. They moved through the pens as if asleep or in some sort of hypnotic trance,
ignoring all others, and were, in turn, ignored by the rest. They were completely uninterested in sexual
activity and made no advances, even toward females in heat.

Another group of rats engaged in extreme activity and were always on the prowl for receptive females.
Calhoun termed them probers. Often, they were attacked by the more dominant males, but were never
interested in fighting for status. They were hypersexual and many of them even became cannibalistic!

3. Sexual deviance. These probers also refused to participate in the natural rituals of mating. Normally, a
male rat will pursue a female in heat until she escapes into her burrow. Then, the male will wait
patiently and even perform a courtship dance directly outside her door. Finally, she emerges from the
burrow and the mating takes place. In Calhoun's study, this ritual was adhered to by most of the
sexually active males except the probers. They completely refused to wait and followed the female right
into her burrow. Sometimes the nests inside the burrow contained young that had failed to survive, and
it was here that late in the study the probers turned cannibalistic.

Another group of male rats was termed the pansexuals because they attempted to mate with any and all
other rats indiscriminately. They sexually approached other males, juveniles, and females that were not
in heat. This was a submissive group that was often attacked by the more dominant male rats, but did
not fight for dominance.

4. Reproductive abnormalities. Rats have a natural instinct for nest building. In this study, small strips of
paper were provided in unlimited quantities as nest material. The females are normally extremely active
in the process of building nests as the time for giving birth approaches. They gather the material and pile
it up so that it forms a cushion. Then they arrange the nest so that it has a small indentation in the
middle to hold the young. However, the females in the behavioral sink gradually lost their ability (or
inclination) to build adequate nests. At first they failed to form the indentation in the middle. Then, as
time went on, they collected fewer and fewer strips of paper so that eventually the infants were born
directly on the sawdust that covered the pen's floor.

The mother rats also lost their maternal ability to transport their young from one place to another if they
felt the presence of danger. They would move some of the litter and forget the rest, or simply drop them onto the
floor as they were moving them. Usually these infants were abandoned and died where they were dropped. They
were then eaten by the adults. The infant mortality rate in the middle pens was extremely high, ranging from
80% to 96%.

In addition to these maternal deficits, the female rats in the middle pens, when in heat, were chased by
large groups of males until they were finally unable to escape. These females experienced high rates of
complications in pregnancy and delivery. By the end of the study, almost half of them had died.
(Snip)

http://www.edmondschools.net/Portals/3/d...AD-Crowding.pdf

---

Quote: Quix wrote in post #19

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #18

---

[quote=FP123|p15421]
Bloomberg is an idiot but considering the space issues in NYC I can't see this option as a bad thing. You know, not everything is a government conspiracy.

---

And the frogs in the kettle noticed the water became pleasantly a bit warmer.

They smiled sweetly and commented to each other . . .

"What a great life! Ain't it sweet! Group hug!"

---

Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #21

---

You beat me to it. The micro apartments in NYC are purely the result of government intervention in the free market for the good of people in NYC. Just like the intervention in the soda market, salt market etc.

IIRC, the micro house movement has started with individuals getting together with contractors to meet free market needs. In NJ there is also a movement of individuals getting together with contractors to create multi generational homes. This often requires getting waivers / changes to town zoning laws.

---

Quote: Quix wrote in post #19

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #18

---

[quote=FP123|p15421]
Bloomberg is an idiot but considering the space issues in NYC I can't see this option as a bad thing. You know, not everything is a government conspiracy.

---

And the frogs in the kettle noticed the water became pleasantly a bit warmer.

They smiled sweetly and commented to each other . . .

"What a great life! Ain't it sweet! Group hug!"

---

Now back to the topic, zer0 is simply doing some wealth redistribution towards his slumlord cronies. There is plenty of factual history to show that is his real motive which I posted earlier in the thread.

Quote: Justme wrote in post #23

---

. . . but you come across as completely paranoid . . .

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #25

---

Now back to the topic, zer0 is simply doing some wealth redistribution towards his slumlord cronies. There is plenty of factual history to show that is his real motive which I posted earlier in the thread.

---

My error.

I keep forgetting

intelligent discussion has to agree with the social stars.

I'll shut up.

OK