Quote: nerd wrote in post #14

---

Yes, some places it takes an hour,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatorship

---

[quote=nerd]A restraining order has nothing to do with a conservatorship, you are on the wrong legal page.[/quote]
You're right. My apologies.

Quote: Palinista wrote in post #7

---

Quote: The_Nevadan wrote in post #5

---

The current state of mental health care in this country has an impact on everyone. If you go to the grocery store, bank or even the C store you have to see, hear or deal with a mentally unstable person on one end; all the way up to your life is directly impacted daily by someone in your family that is mentally unstable. It is a real failure of the system that now Lanza's barber, gardener and others have come out and said he was one scary kid. Holmes had roommates that well out of their way to avoid dealing with him. I understand that in many states there is no programs to filter and sideline these people. Eliminating the mental care housing facilites was a huge mistake. Lanza's parents could easily have afforded housed care for him but didn't. Why?

---

Because he and his mother were looking at different colleges for him to attend. She had been to several different cities this year checking out campuses and housing arrangements. She was looking at smaller homes for her to live in. She wanted to live near the campus where he would live. She was planning on downsizing to a smaller home and he would live on campus. He was going to be enrolled in college!

She didn't see him as a young man who needed to live in a special setting as someone who was developmentally disabled.

She didn't see him as the world now sees him after he killed so many people, his mother, and himself.

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #8

---

Zitat

---

Lanza's parents could easily have afforded housed care for him but didn't. Why?

---

You can't legally force an adult into treatment against their will at this time, even if they are exhibiting psychotic behavior. The state of Connecticut failed to pass legislation dealing with this issue after the Colorado shooting a few months ago thanks to the advocacy of the ACLU.

There is a need to allow the family or caretakers to get help for these mentally ill adults without trampling on their civil rights.

---

I understand and support the fact that it requires a legal process to have someone declared incompetent. In many states a family member or the police can put someone in a 72 hour examination situation..Then doctors decide how to proceed. To many times the way forward is drugs and live at home. That is not appropriate for some of these people - clearly. Lunatics have been around for millenia. We used to kill them or store them. Was society better off?

Quote: The_Nevadan wrote in post #19

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #8

---

Zitat

---

Lanza's parents could easily have afforded housed care for him but didn't. Why?

---

You can't legally force an adult into treatment against their will at this time, even if they are exhibiting psychotic behavior. The state of Connecticut failed to pass legislation dealing with this issue after the Colorado shooting a few months ago thanks to the advocacy of the ACLU.

There is a need to allow the family or caretakers to get help for these mentally ill adults without trampling on their civil rights.

---

I understand and support the fact that it requires a legal process to have someone declared incompetent. In many states a family member or the police can put someone in a 72 hour examination situation..Then doctors decide how to proceed. To many times the way forward is drugs and live at home. That is not appropriate for some of these people - clearly. Lunatics have been around for millenia. We used to kill them or store them. Was society better off?

---

I do not know about the killing, other than I support execution for the likes of adam when the do not kill themselves after such an act. However, the facts are the facts, I carried ammo to school as a kid and a pocket knife and the worst think we kids had to worry about was the russians killing everyone with a bomb. And then we had all those under the desk drills and finding the bomb shelter
all that seems to be forgotten. If you lay down in a ditch and hold a door over your body you may live through the bomb blast. LOL.

But yes, society was better off when we housed the insane better and little kids were not shot in school, but some were blown up by dynamite. And if you live to be ten a hundred years ago and
an eagle, wolf, bear, or wild cat did not get you, or you starved or die of disease. You might live to be forty.

Quote: steph wrote in post #16

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #14

---

Yes, some places it takes an hour,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatorship

---

You have to have documentation to prove that the person is incapacitated. It doesn't just take someone going in and saying hey this kid is crazy I need to get legal control over him. The court proceeding may not take long with lots of documented proof.

Honestly, I don't want the process to be too easy to have someone declared incompetent. That opens the door for some serious abuse.

---

Quote: Palinista wrote in post #9

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #6

---

The democrats using dead kids bodies for fund raising and agenda pushing is not going over well. Before the liberals threw the mental patients out on the street in
1974 this did not happen, I often had ammo in my pocket at school when I was a kid, to day they wuld pme in jail, I carried a pocket knife also. But in those days we
put nuts in the insane institution.

A simple question, it is illegal for a mental patient to own a weapon, but how do you know who the mental person is if they are not reported. And yes the parents need
Be accountable, this my little crazy johnny would not hurt a fly has got to stop.

---

I don't know of a way that you are going to determine who is "crazy johnny" and who isn't. They don't walk around with flashing lights on the top of their heads so that you can identify them in a crowd.

---

Quote: The_Nevadan wrote in post #5

---

The current state of mental health care in this country has an impact on everyone. If you go to the grocery store, bank or even the C store you have to see, hear or deal with a mentally unstable person on one end; all the way up to your life is directly impacted daily by someone in your family that is mentally unstable. It is a real failure of the system that now Lanza's barber, gardener and others have come out and said he was one scary kid. Holmes had roommates that went well out of their way to avoid dealing with him. I understand that in many states there is no programs to filter and sideline these people. Eliminating the mental care housing facilites was a huge mistake. Lanza's parents could easily have afforded housed care for him but didn't. Why?

---

Quote: Quix wrote in post #22

---

Quote: Palinista wrote in post #9

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #6

---

The democrats using dead kids bodies for fund raising and agenda pushing is not going over well. Before the liberals threw the mental patients out on the street in
1974 this did not happen, I often had ammo in my pocket at school when I was a kid, to day they wuld pme in jail, I carried a pocket knife also. But in those days we
put nuts in the insane institution.

A simple question, it is illegal for a mental patient to own a weapon, but how do you know who the mental person is if they are not reported. And yes the parents need
Be accountable, this my little crazy johnny would not hurt a fly has got to stop.

---

I don't know of a way that you are going to determine who is "crazy johnny" and who isn't. They don't walk around with flashing lights on the top of their heads so that you can identify them in a crowd.

---

Certainly the

PREDICTION OF VIOLENCE is an extremely flawed pseudo-science and a very iffy art.

There are some tolerably useful clues NEAR THE TIME of acting out IF the person is closely monitored by perceptive folks trained in such matters.

On the whole, particularly with very bright and sensitive people, it is a challenge to predict violence accurately--particularly with any accurate timeline on the prediction.

Now this bloke was likely not sensitive in sufficient ways interpersonally to have hidden their violence potential from someone well trained or even, probably from his mother. However, his mother was likely in some level of denial as to the degree of probability that he was going to act out soon. Evidently she was concerned enough to be groping around for better solutions.

---

Quote: Quix wrote in post #21

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #16

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #14

---

Yes, some places it takes an hour,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatorship

---

You have to have documentation to prove that the person is incapacitated. It doesn't just take someone going in and saying hey this kid is crazy I need to get legal control over him. The court proceeding may not take long with lots of documented proof.

Honestly, I don't want the process to be too easy to have someone declared incompetent. That opens the door for some serious abuse.

---

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

And the oligarchy demonstrated in the Soviet Union that they are EAGER AND WELL PREPARED TO USE "PSYCHIATRIC" EXCUSES TO IMPRISON INNOCENTS.

---

The ones I know had stabbed people, beat people, made threats, set things on fire and had police contacts. The ones who cared couldn't put them away albeit in one case the guy was so rich he basically had to kill someone before he could be put away. I'm not sure this would apply in Holmes or Lanza's cases but there ought to be a serious means of dealing with people who show mental illness through criminal activity.

IIRC, the Giffords shooter showed behavior that could have led to action.

And there is a common sense aspect to this. Those suffering from Alzheimer's or other forms of dementia lose a lot of the power to make personal choices.

Quote: nerd wrote in post #25

---

Quote: Quix wrote in post #21

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #16

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #14

---

Yes, some places it takes an hour,

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatorship

---

You have to have documentation to prove that the person is incapacitated. It doesn't just take someone going in and saying hey this kid is crazy I need to get legal control over him. The court proceeding may not take long with lots of documented proof.

Honestly, I don't want the process to be too easy to have someone declared incompetent. That opens the door for some serious abuse.

---

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

And the oligarchy demonstrated in the Soviet Union that they are EAGER AND WELL PREPARED TO USE "PSYCHIATRIC" EXCUSES TO IMPRISON INNOCENTS.

---

Yes, and the ussr has nothing todo with the american system of justice, it normally takes the statement of fact from at least one other witness.
You see the judge also explains the law to the person requesting the order, about how long you can go to jail for false imprisonment.

---