Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #11

---

Agreed Eglman.
Holding our own against this kind of onslaught doesn't alter the Truth of God that he puts before us.

But we're dealing with a popular movement and the people are being swayed, especially the less biblically astute, younger generation, and that is particularly challenging. We do need to develop a strategy to avoid being coined by their phrase and dismissed as haters.

Homophobic is their word choice, not ours. It is inaccurate two ways: we don't fear and we don't hate. We disagree but we don't hate the sinner [if we're operating as Christ taught].

Remember ruthless Saul became the Apostle Paul

Quote: Eglman wrote in post #9

---

I wake up every morning with two words on my lips--No Compromise--I do not compromise on God's word what got hates I hates what he says is good I say is good. Satan is a perverter of what God has set in order men loving men and women loving women is not God's order no brow beating or peer preasure or name calling will change my convictions.

When Christians let down the bar of God's standards anything can creep in and he will walk away and leave them to their own folly.

I have a Guide and it is the Holy Spirit He tells me what is right and wrong and I don't need a certian group to tell me what I need to accept as acceptable behavior.

God does not like Lukewarm belivers so Satan is trying to lower the bar and I say NO--If that makes me a fanatic or a whatever phobia they what to throw at me so be it--I have to answer to one God in the end--So I'm resting on that.

---

---

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #14

---

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #11

---

We disagree but we don't hate the sinner....

---

God didn't hate the residents of Sodom and Gomorahh.

He just disagreed with their behavior.

---

Here's my response whenever I get the "Homophobe" label:

A phobia is a fear of something, thus the homophobe label would imply fearing homosexuals which is laughable for any Christian to fear a homosexual. The only being anyone should fear is God. The more appropriate label would be something along the lines of I'm a "Theophobe" not a homophobe. I fear the Lord.

So should the homosexual. The Lord does not take this sin lightly, or any other sin. Its why we need Christ. The Homosexual can never destroy my soul for an eternity in Hell, but God can and will if we don't repent.

Usually it gets pretty quiet after that. Sometimes I'll hear, "But Christ loved, etc. etc. He was very tolerant, blah blah", to which I respond that is not the Christ of the Bible. The biblical Christ was very narrow minded, He's the one who taught "Narrow is the road [to salvation] and few find it...."
Then more quietness or perhaps anger followed by more quietness.

But as other posters have said, compromise is not allowed when you fear the Lord and His commands.

Quote: The_Nevadan wrote in post #17

---

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #11

---

Agreed Eglman.
Holding our own against this kind of onslaught doesn't alter the Truth of God that he puts before us.

But we're dealing with a popular movement and the people are being swayed, especially the less biblically astute, younger generation, and that is particularly challenging. We do need to develop a strategy to avoid being coined by their phrase and dismissed as haters.

Homophobic is their word choice, not ours. It is inaccurate two ways: we don't fear and we don't hate. We disagree but we don't hate the sinner [if we're operating as Christ taught].

Remember ruthless Saul became the Apostle Paul

Quote: Eglman wrote in post #9

---

I wake up every morning with two words on my lips--No Compromise--I do not compromise on God's word what got hates I hates what he says is good I say is good. Satan is a perverter of what God has set in order men loving men and women loving women is not God's order no brow beating or peer preasure or name calling will change my convictions.

When Christians let down the bar of God's standards anything can creep in and he will walk away and leave them to their own folly.

I have a Guide and it is the Holy Spirit He tells me what is right and wrong and I don't need a certian group to tell me what I need to accept as acceptable behavior.

God does not like Lukewarm belivers so Satan is trying to lower the bar and I say NO--If that makes me a fanatic or a whatever phobia they what to throw at me so be it--I have to answer to one God in the end--So I'm resting on that.

---

---

As always those who control the language control the political terrain. A lesson that many on the right seem to not get.

---

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #20

---

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #18

---

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #14

---

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #11

---

We disagree but we don't hate the sinner....

---

God didn't hate the residents of Sodom and Gomorahh.

He just disagreed with their behavior.

---

As far as I can tell God is the just and final arbitrator.
The rest of us are sinners, saved by grace through no merit of our own, and commissioned to go back and try to save the others.

---

1. "We" don't save anyone.

2. The imperative prerequisite to gain salvation is REPENTANCE! Precious few Christians have the guts to tell homosexuals that. That's what's missing, currently.

---

Quote: The_Nevadan wrote in post #17

---

As always those who control the language control the political terrain. A lesson that many on the right seem to not get.

---

Zitat

---

http://www.publiceye.org/magazine/v17n2/evangelical-demographics.html

While we unequivocally defend reproductive rights, women’s rights, and gay rights, we have to leave some space in the public square for those who disagree with us. Veteran organizer Suzanne Pharr, director of the Highlander Center in Tennessee, urges progressives to find ways to challenge the ideas of the Christian Right while agreeing to disagree with individual followers in a respectful manner that would allow us to trade a cup of sugar with them if we shared a backyard fence as neighbors.[22] When we ridicule those who have spiritual values and conservative politics, we force them to defend themselves by challenging us. Why antagonize them when our goal is resisting oppression?

We need to distinguish between people who believe abortion is a sin and those who attack clinics—a tiny fraction of Christians who oppose abortion. We can challenge both groups without unfairly lumping them together. We need to abandon focus group phrases such as "religious political extremist" that demonize observant Christians by falsely implying they are linked to neonazi race hate groups. Every direct mail letter that raises funds by demonizing Christian evangelicals in general as "The Radical Right" sets back the movement for progressive social change. .

---

Politically, that is very wise advice.

The author goes on to stress the importance of coalition building.

Zitat

---

In election 2000 in state level races, when Blacks and labor union members turned out and voted for a specific candidate, the Christian Right and conservative candidates often lost the election.[23] This shows that if we build truly democratic progressive coalitions that include Blacks and other people of color, labor union members and other wageworkers, women, people in LGBT communities, environmentalists, and progressive people of faith, we can consistently outvote the Christian Right.

---

So, how does a 33% percent minority build a winning coalition if the main concern is to impose their morality on the other 66%?

You can't. Not in 21st Century America where the "Conservative" Vice Presidential candidate goes to accept the nomination while bringing along her "out of wedlock" grandson and the white trash Levi Johnston that knocked up her 16 year old daughter.

My own attitude towards gays is "Politically Incorrect on both sides": I have no problem with gays but I would not want my son to marry one.

Some of my best fishing and NFL-watching buddies have been bull dykes. (They were a lot of fun.) I simply do not care about their sex life as long as they do not mix their sex life with my daughter.

A couple of months ago, we had a lesbian couple over for dinner and the one I talked to the most was a fiscally conservative business owner that had a very good financial head on her shoulders.

In regards to the economy, you know what?

I would rather have her as President of the United States, right now, with her lesbian partner as First Lady, than have hetreosexual Barack Obama in the White House.

That lesbian's sex life does not affect me. Heterosexual Obama's destruction of the American economy does. My main concern is that Caesar be competent so that Caesar does not destroy everything that I have worked for and so that Caesar does not destroy my children's future. Whether or not Caesar's sex life is "moral" or "immoral" ......... As far as I am concerned, that is between Caesar and God.

As always I appreciate your insights Polybius. I wish our list had a ping feature. I almost missed your comments entirely. the publiceye quote you posted was a model of how diverse groups within this Country should behave with respect towards one another.

I'd like all to hold to my moral values. They don't. As the reality of our cultural shift takes hold I do grieve for our loss of morals as a Nation. Where we go from here is not going to be where we'd like it to be. Already the public schools have take the morality teaching into their tent and have effectiveley re-branded America highest values into a sex crazed self gratifying quest for personal edification. That doesn't inspire greatness, never has. But it fits with where kids are coming from without any spiritual element.