Quote: Cedric wrote in post #15

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Quote: truth_seeker wrote in post #9

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Quote: Cedric wrote in post #7

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Quote: Frank Cannon wrote in post #5

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The worst thing that happened in really addressing this issue is when Bush called Islam the religion of peace. As we can see in Boston, it isn't working out too well.

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You're blaming the Boston Marathon bombing on Bush?

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It could be argued that Bush's position furthered the problem of letting dangerous muslims in, letting them stay, and not watching ALL muslims closely enough.

The evidence about Maj. Hassan of Ft. Hood fame took place first during Bush, and under the national security and military leadership of his appointees.

These bombers and their families came here long before Obama. They apparently came under Bush.

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Why not blame Rutherford B. Hayes?

The facts are that the Fort Hood massacre and the Boston Marathon bombing happened on Obama's watch. He's had 4 years to change any GWB policies he chose to.

It's time you help Barry put on his big boy pants and start to accept the responsibility that comes with the office.

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Bush didn't prevent 9-11-2001 and Obama didn't prevent Hassan or Boston. The problem is both parties are stuck with the permanent government bureaucracy, made of people who serve the forces of political correctness.

I'm not a partisan when it comes to the nation's security. We are stuck with the fact it took over 9.5 years to kill bin Laden, twice the time it took to defeat Germany and Japan across several continents.

There is a twofold problem; Evil islam, and naïve politically correct government bureaucracy.

The way politicians stay in power, is to keep you at my throat, by triangulation, instead of BOTH of us and people from other parties, demanding better security.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #7

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Quote: Frank Cannon wrote in post #5

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The worst thing that happened in really addressing this issue is when Bush called Islam the religion of peace. As we can see in Boston, it isn't working out too well.

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You're blaming the Boston Marathon bombing on Bush?

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Somebody went out of their way to defend a sworn enemy of America instead of setting the country on a footing to deal with it effectively. Islam is not nor has it ever been the religion of peace. It's entire foundation is built on death and destruction.

Quote: truth_seeker wrote in post #21

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Bush II failed to take the pathway to impose TOTAL DEFEAT, right when world opinion would have allowed him greater range of options, than the path he took----"islam is a religion of peace" bullshit.

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Bingo. We should have taken a hard line right out of the box and then there wouldn't be any of these repercussions from taking the PC path. Racists and homophobes are thought of as lesser people than Islamofacists in this country for crying out loud.

Quote: truth_seeker wrote in post #21

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The Germans and then Japanese surrendered NOT because they suddenly saw the error of their ways, but because they saw the total destruction and TOTAL DEFEAT underway of their cities and citizens.

Bush II failed to take the pathway to impose TOTAL DEFEAT, right when world opinion would have allowed him greater range of options, than the path he took----"islam is a religion of peace" bullshit.

But face it, it took great insight to impose TOTAL DEFEAT concluding WWII. It was the last war which America decisively and permanently won. Our citizens cringe at dropping nukes, so we live in a constant state of danger instead.

In 1945 and in 1965 Germany and Japan feared the US. Today islam does NOT fear the US.

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Islam is not merely a religion; it is a total political system which has a lot in common structurally with fascism. In Islam Peace only exists under an Islamic caliphate and Sharia.

Quote: truth_seeker wrote in post #21

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The Germans and then Japanese surrendered NOT because they suddenly saw the error of their ways, but because they saw the total destruction and TOTAL DEFEAT underway of their cities and citizens.

Bush II failed to take the pathway to impose TOTAL DEFEAT, right when world opinion would have allowed him greater range of options, than the path he took----"islam is a religion of peace" bullshit.

But face it, it took great insight to impose TOTAL DEFEAT concluding WWII. It was the last war which America decisively and permanently won. Our citizens cringe at dropping nukes, so we live in a constant state of danger instead.

In 1945 and in 1965 Germany and Japan feared the US. Today islam does NOT fear the US.

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If there is a difference in historical outcomes, we need to study the historical dynamics. If not, we are just spinning our wheels.

When Hitler invaded Poland in 1939, the population of Germany was 81 million and the population of Japan was 71 million for a grand total of 152 million in two countries that were each much smaller in territory than the State of Texas. They were “conquerable”.

After the conquest, America did not transform West Germany by wiping out “Germans” or wiping out “the German culture” or wiping out the “German religions”. Ditto for Japan. At the end of the war, tens of millions of Germans and tens of millions of Japanese were still alive. Today, their descendants are still very “German” and very “Japanese”. The only difference is that, in 1938, the German and Japanese youth was being indoctrinated by German and Japanese fanatics but, in 1948, the West German youth was being indoctrinated by American, British and French Military Occupation authorities and Japanese youth was being indoctrinated by American Military Occupation authorities.

The East Germans, who were bombed to ashes by the American Eighth Air Force, not the Soviet Air Force, were still as anti-American in 1954 as they were in 1944. The only difference was that Nazi indoctrination had been exchanged for Soviet indoctrination.

What matters is not the bombing or the killing. What matters is who indoctrinates the next generation.

Today, the Muslim population of the world is 1.6 Billion (1,600 million) which is spread all over the world including, as is the case with these Boston bombers, the lands of the former Soviet Union.


World Muslim population in millions

Wiping out the 1.6 Billion “Muslims” off the Planet Earth ain’t gonna happen. The American military conquest of 1.6 Billion “Muslims” living from Michigan to the former Soviet Union ain’t gonna happen. The American military occupation of 1.6 Billion “Muslims” living from Michigan to the former Soviet Union ain’t gonna happen.

So, talking about World War II style solutions in regards to the “Muslim” world achieves nothing except to paint an impossible scenario.

West Germany was not transformed by wiping out the Germans and replacing them with Americans. (By contrast, former East Prussian WAS transformed by wiping out and/or deporting the Germans and replacing them with Russians.) West Germany was transformed by specifically targeting and eliminating a specific TYPE of German: The Nazi.

In a historical context, “Muslim” is equivalent to “German” and “Islamist” is equivalent to “Nazi”.

You cannot exterminate all “Muslims” or all “Germans”. It is simply impossible. There are too many of them. However, you can control “Nazis” and “Islamists”. The U.S. did it, in regards to Nazis, after World War II and Saddam Hussein did it, in regards to Islamists, prior to the Iraq War. The Shah of Iran did it, in regards to Islamists, prior to Jimmy Carter. Egypt did it, in regards to Islamists, prior to Barack Obama. Libya did it, in regards to Islamists, prior to Barack Obama. Syria has done it, in regards to Islamists, up to now.

During World War II, differentiating “Germans” from “Nazis” sometimes came naturally. It also had to be learned.

On the Home Front, World War II America had no problem distinguishing between “good Germans” and “bad Germans”. The extremely “German” Marlene Dietrich was absolutely adored during World War II because of her loyalty to the American war effort. Elisabeth Dietrich, her sister, spent World War II running a movie theatre for Nazi officers and officials who oversaw the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp.

“Good German” vs. “bad German”. It was the individual and not “being German” that counted.



On the War Front, there was a learning curve. During World War II, over 400,000 German POW’s were sent to the U.S. At first, the U.S. authorities functioned under the attitude that “a German is a German” and all Germans are alike. Thus, all German POW’s were mixed in together without regards to the fact that the Nazi fanatics were a small minority within the POW population. The result was that each POW camp in the U.S. was terrorized by a small band of Nazi fanatics. German POW’s that did not bow the Nazi line were murdered during the night. The Nazi fanatics organized POW camp resistance. Finally, the U.S. authorities came to the realization that all Germans are not alike and made a concerted effort to root out all the Nazi fanatics and send them off to separate camps. After that, German POW camps ran very smoothly.

Imaging the aftermath of World War II if the attitude had been either:

1.) All Germans are alike and all Germans on Earth and the German culture must be wiped out or made “un-German”.

2.) Germany is a “Land of Peace” and rooting out Nazi fanatics is insulting to Germans and, therefore, Politically Incorrect.

Yet, those two options are what dominate the discussion of Islamist terror in America today.

The “Nuke the Muslims” talk only makes all Muslims circle the wagons. Imagine how effective “Nuke the Pope” rhetoric would be in response to IRA bombings or the fact that Hitler was raised Catholic. Imagine how effective how “Bomb the Lutherans” rhetoric would have worked since a large part of the Wehrmacht was Lutheran.

Ignoring the reality of the Islamist fanatic is as idiotic as ignoring the reality of the Nazi fanatic but that is exactly what the media, the U.S. Government and the Muslim community in the U.S. does.

One dynamic feeds off the other.

Of course there are “good Muslims” and many of them fought side by side with U.S. troops in Iraq. One of them has been my sister’s “significant other” (she’s allergic to marriage) and votes Republican (which is more than I can say about my sister). He left Iran after the fall of the Shah. He is a successful physician with his own private practice. He is not, as my sister says, “a Koran Thumper”. He lectures my sister against Obama. Yet, for century after century after century, his family has been Muslim and attacking his historical heritage is simply not productive.

There are many “not so good Muslims” who are not very religious at all. President Assad of Syria is an example. In terms of geopolitical Realpolitik, a secular “bad guy” is better than a religious fanatic “bad guy”.

There are many “good Muslims” that are not fanatical “Koran Thumpers”. The Egyptians who are today fighting against theocratic Islamic Brotherhood are an example.

Just as there was a common sense way to identify and eliminate Nazi fanatics without resorting to the targeting of everything “German” on the Planet Earth, there is a way to identify and eliminate Islamist fanatics without resorting to the targeting of everything “Muslim” on the Planet Earth.

If the problem of Islamist violence is to be addressed, there is no choice. If 1945 America was not capable of wiping out 81 million Germans and all cultural trace of them, the Politically Correct, touchy-feely 2013 America certainly is not capable of wiping out 1.6 Billion Muslims and all cultural traces of them.

We need to stop thinking in these two extremes.

From a historical perspective, what I see in 21st Century America is a country with a weak will and little or no long term strategic vision. The last “adult” leader of the U.S. was George Bush, the Elder. After that, it has been Baby Boomer & Generation X Amateur Hour.

1.) After shedding much blood and treasure in Iraq under George W. Bush, America had a chance to “Westernize” an Arab country by sticking around and allowing a young generation to grow up with Western ummmm ….. “liberties” ….. That’s right ….. Corrupt them with mini-skirts, booze and rock & roll. As they said in America after World War One, “How You Gonna Keep 'Em Down on the Farm After They’ve Seen Paris?”



After a longer taste of freedom, a younger Iraqi generation would not surrender their new-found freedoms to old mullahs. Instead, what happened? In Post-World War II Germany, America stayed for half a century. In Iraq, America, under Obama, bugged out of Iraq as soon as possible and a new generation of Iraqis is now being indoctrinated by the religious hard-core. Strategically, it would have been better if a militarily weakened Saddam Hussein had be left in power. The Iraq War was counter-productive as a result of America's weak will AFTER the war was won. Winner: Islamist Iran.

2.) In Egypt and Syria and Libya, “democratic” forces have been supported by Obama that are, in actuality, very non-democratic and religiously fanatic. A secular “bad guy” is preferable to a religious fanatic “bad guy”. Winner: The Islamists.

3.) In Afghanistan, blood has been shed so that Obama could claim that Bush “took his eye off the ball”. Yet Obama has just kept U.S. troops there without any purpose other than a Vietnamization 2.0 that is guaranteed to fail. Winner: The Islamists.

What is gained by such strategy?

Absolutely nothing. There is no long-term vision as there was after World War II. American lives have been wasted by both George W. Bush and Obama.

Until America is willing to differentiate the Islamist fanatic and root him out just like the Nazi fanatic was rooted out during and after World War II, America will continue to spin it’s wheels.

If Ronald Reagan was the “Great Communicator”, George W. Bush was the “Horrible Communicator”. As a result of his “Religion of Peace” remark, he has reduced the discussion to the absurd level of whether the historical culture of 1.6 Billion people must be exterminated or whether Islamist fanatics simply do not exist and must not be mentioned.

Barack Obama is just an ignorant fool who cares for nothing except for his short term political gains even if U.S. troops have to die in Afghanistan in order to help him score cynical political points during his Presidential campaigns.

The solution is the Marlene Dietrich Reality.

You cannot kill every German on the Planet and it is counter-productive to even think in those terms or to bash every German on the Planet. Focus on exterminating the fanatics and embrace every “German” that is willing to help.

Unfortunately, the Muslim community has been very reluctant to turn againsts it's "Nazis", the Bush Administration could not articulate the difference betwwen a "Muslim" and an "Islamist" and the Obama Administration and the media want to pretend that Islamists do not exist.