Quote: Cedric wrote in post #15

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #14

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Seems playing by the GOPe rules nobody wins but the democrats and cronies. In case you did not notice, the Diablos' hands are not clean here. Whats at stake is America's survival not the feelings of those who got us in this mess

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It's not about feelings, it's about winning.

But, all too often, whenever they don't win Tea Partiers indulge their feelings of impotence and frustration through name calling and petulant thumb sucking.

I once had high hopes that the TP would be the vehicle by which a conservative take over of the GOP could be carried out.

But those hopes disappeared in a cloud of arrogant, near-sighted, self-glorifying, attacks by Tea Partiers against their erstwhile political allies, right-of-center candidates and GOP office holders, who apparently failed the (undefined and ever-changing) Tea Party purity test.

If the Soros/Obama/Pelosi cabal had set out to divide and conquer the conservative majority opposition, how could it have done so more effectively?

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Another brilliant GOP move. And you actually wonder why so many of us are disgusted??

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-newsbreak-ex-go...--election.html

Oh, the Tea Party has some pretty impressive victories. Michigan and Indiana are now right to work. That is something I would not have been able to imagine -- at least with regard to Michigan -- before the Tea Party. The old school Republicans were certainly not willing to take on these battles. And those are huge deals, btw.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #15

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But, all too often, whenever they don't win Tea Partiers indulge their feelings of impotence and frustration through name calling and petulant thumb sucking.

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Quote: Cedric wrote in post #13

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #12

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #11

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@Polybius how do you see the GOP establishment in this? I agree with you, and had a nice history lesson, but am at a loss what they can do to combat the Tea Parties assault on fellow members of the Republican Party.

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No matter how its spun or twisted the majority of potential GOP voting Americans support the Tea Parties' s principles. Regardless of the smeared name for it. The point being the only way to win now is to embrace those principles not attack them. The GOPe is seen as one of the problems not a solution, not the good guys and not able to win. They are seen as intentionally losing to democrats i.e. planning to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - AGAIN.

By painting Tea Party as bad when a majority of American now fear their government, fear economic collapse and place congresses approval ratings lower then that of slime mold is not logical, reasonable, sane or a wining strategy.

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Tea Partiers consider themselves to be heirs to the Reagan legacy and they are........philosophically.

But, tactically, they are Reagan's polar opposite........embarrassingly so.

Ronaldus Maximus didn't run around continually calling members of the Rockefeller/Gerald Ford/GOPe crooks, cowards, bums and even traitors.

Reagan was way too smart to do that.

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #16

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Quote: Cedric wrote in post #15

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #14

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Seems playing by the GOPe rules nobody wins but the democrats and cronies. In case you did not notice, the Diablos' hands are not clean here. Whats at stake is America's survival not the feelings of those who got us in this mess

---

It's not about feelings, it's about winning.

But, all too often, whenever they don't win Tea Partiers indulge their feelings of impotence and frustration through name calling and petulant thumb sucking.

I once had high hopes that the TP would be the vehicle by which a conservative take over of the GOP could be carried out.

But those hopes disappeared in a cloud of arrogant, near-sighted, self-glorifying, attacks by Tea Partiers against their erstwhile political allies, right-of-center candidates and GOP office holders, who apparently failed the (undefined and ever-changing) Tea Party purity test.

If the Soros/Obama/Pelosi cabal had set out to divide and conquer the conservative majority opposition, how could it have done so more effectively?

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Bottom line you're not going to win without us.

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I'd argue that there is not a dime's bit of difference between Chris Coons and Mike Castle and I'm glad Christine O'Donnell knocked Castle's tail out of the race. As far as her being an incompetent whackjob how is she different than say, Elizabeth Warren or Hillary Clinton for that matter?

Warren and Clinton would have been toast due to their life histories if they were conservative and subject to 24/7 media hate. What was O'Donnell's big sin? She was a virgin and did witchy things as a teenager? LOL.

And Cruz didn't hurt himself or the party. Watch and see. He's on the side of history. It's becoming more and more clear that the fight isn't between Republicans and Democrats but between those get richer from government and those who get poorer.

Quote: Polybius wrote in post #20

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Quote: Cedric wrote in post #13

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #12

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #11

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@Polybius how do you see the GOP establishment in this? I agree with you, and had a nice history lesson, but am at a loss what they can do to combat the Tea Parties assault on fellow members of the Republican Party.

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No matter how its spun or twisted the majority of potential GOP voting Americans support the Tea Parties' s principles. Regardless of the smeared name for it. The point being the only way to win now is to embrace those principles not attack them. The GOPe is seen as one of the problems not a solution, not the good guys and not able to win. They are seen as intentionally losing to democrats i.e. planning to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory - AGAIN.

By painting Tea Party as bad when a majority of American now fear their government, fear economic collapse and place congresses approval ratings lower then that of slime mold is not logical, reasonable, sane or a wining strategy.

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Tea Partiers consider themselves to be heirs to the Reagan legacy and they are........philosophically.

But, tactically, they are Reagan's polar opposite........embarrassingly so.

Ronaldus Maximus didn't run around continually calling members of the Rockefeller/Gerald Ford/GOPe crooks, cowards, bums and even traitors.

Reagan was way too smart to do that.

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In regards to the question, “What can be done to combat the Tea Parties assault on fellow members of the Republican Party?” the answer is “The same thing that can be done to combat the wife of your brother-in-law that is always criticizing you behind your back at family functions”.

It is a very unfortunate situation which results in Lose-Lose for the family no matter which course is taken.

As Cedric points out, it is not a matter of principle but a matter of tactics and conduct.

Let’s go back to the disastrous military career of General Lloyd Fredendall.

Did everybody share the same “principles”?

Of course they did. Every American and every Brit in North Africa was for Freedom, Democracy and Liberty and hated Adolf Hitler’s guts. Principles were NOT at issue.

What had General Lloyd Fredendall in severe conflict with everybody else was HOW to defeat Hitler. So it is with the Tea Party and anybody that disagrees with them about HOW.

As I see it, the Tea Party leadership has several crippling flaws:

1.) Bunker Mentality that is shockingly out of touch with the local reality of Purple and Blue States.

2.) Rookie inexperience combined with refusal to listen to more experienced advice

3.) “Do it my way or you are a coward or a traitor”.

Lloyd Fredendall was not only a “Map General” but, literally, wanted nothing to do with getting anywhere near the actual battlefields in order to better understand them. During the Torch landings, Fredendall stayed aboard his command ship until all fighting ceased. For the advance into Tunisa, Fredendall ordered the building of a bunker blasted out of solid rock to be located 70 miles behind the front lines. Like Hitler in his Berlin Bunker, Fredendall saw the battlefield as he wished it to be instead of how it actually was. The advice of any subordinate that was actually out in the field was rejected if it did not agree with Fredendall’s fantasy world.

Likewise, the Tea Party leaders live in a fantasy world where every voter in a Purple State like Delaware or Virginia or Maine is assumed to think and act exactly as they do. In the 2008 Delaware Senate race, the Tea Party darling, Christine O’Donnell was slaughtered by Democrat Joe Biden 64.7% to 35.5%. What on Earth, besides a Bunker Mentality on Steroids, made the Tea Party believe that the Purple voters in Delaware had turned into white Alabama voter clones by 2010? So, with their Bunker Mentality, the Tea Party ensured the primary defeat of a hated “RINO” that was favored to win Purple Delaware’s general election. Result: Christine O’Donnell got slaughtered once again 56.6% to 40.0% by the current Delaware Democratic Senator Chris Coons that had once written an article entitled "Chris Coons: The Making of a Bearded Marxist".

In both Delaware and even in her own home state of Alaska, Tea Party candidates backed by Sarah Palin were slaughtered. That is what happens when Bunker Mentality fantasy rejects local reality.

In North Africa, the British had ample combat experience against the Germans but Fredendall did not want to hear about it and was barely on speaking terms with his British counterpart. Thus, the inexperienced American forces fell victim to a tactic that had been previously used against the British. At Faid Pass, an apparent German retreat led American tank forces into a prepared Kill Zone where German 88’s devastated the American forces.

Likewise, a green Senator Ted Cruz who had never fought a battle outside of his home turf of Texas did not want to hear any advice from political veterans with experience on the national stage. Ted Cruz would force a battle at ObamaCare Pass and be victorious because ….. Well ….. Just because. “Charge!” Once in battle, Ted Cruz then found out that the News Media that he ASS/U/MEd would report the battle in a Fair & Balanced manner was actually manning the 88’s that were blasting the GOP tanks to Kingdom Come. Result: A bloodbath for the GOP in public opinion polls when America’s attention should have been focused, 100%, on the ObamaCare Hindenburg that was about to explode without any help from Ted Cruz.

This brings us to the last point which is downright toxic: Anybody that disagrees with the Tea Party tactics is labeled either a coward or a traitor.

Such a tactic works when a North Korean Supreme Leader has the power of life and death over anybody that does not applaud him enthusiastically enough. Such a tactic works when your public image truly has strong majority support as Lincoln did during the Civil War.

However, when your national Favorability Rating is only 30% and the other 70% of America is insulted as either cowards or traitors in your own Republican Party or are totally ignored as Democrats or Independent who are lower than whale scat at the bottom of the ocean, engaging in such a tactic is the political equivalent of putting the barrel of a loaded gun in your mouth and pulling the trigger.



There is nothing wrong with the Tea Party principles. The problem with the Tea Party is that their TACTICS, their conduct, their percieved recklessness and their image are only popular with 30% of America and the Tea Party leaders absolutely refuse to take into account that the other 70% of America also has a vote.

All politics is local. Alabama, Delaware, Virginia, Maine, Michigan, Indiana and Massachusetts are all different. The Tea Party needs to understand that.

The Tea Party needs to wise up and realize that a Tea Party darling like Christine O'Donnell never had a snowball's chance in Hell in Delaware and that a "RINO" Delaware Senator is a gift from Heaven in comparison with the "Bearded Marxist" Delaware Senator that the 2010 Chritine O'Donnell/Tea Party fiasco resulted in.

The Tea Party needs to wise up and realize that, although Scott Brown was a hated RINO in their eyes, in slightly-to-the-Right-of-Che-Guevara Massachusetts, a "RINO" Scott Brown was also a gift from Heaven in comparison to a Senator Ted Kennedy and Senator Elizabeth Warren.

The Tea Party principles of fiscal responsibility and smaller government can never be achieved as long as the Tea Party keeps killing so-called RINO's in Blue and Purple States so that "Bearded Marxists" can then cruise to easy victories in the general election.

In addition, when, for whatever reasons, fair or unfair, the Approval Rating is only 30%, a wise faction does not insist that the General Election candidate spend month after month in the Primaries swearing Political Purity to the unpopular faction. Did you notice how the Gay Rights lobby hit the jackpot in the 2008 Elections? By keeping as quiet a church mice when Obama paid lip service to their opposition.

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Quote: Snow lily wrote in post #21

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #16

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Quote: Cedric wrote in post #15

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #14

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Seems playing by the GOPe rules nobody wins but the democrats and cronies. In case you did not notice, the Diablos' hands are not clean here. Whats at stake is America's survival not the feelings of those who got us in this mess

---

It's not about feelings, it's about winning.

But, all too often, whenever they don't win Tea Partiers indulge their feelings of impotence and frustration through name calling and petulant thumb sucking.

I once had high hopes that the TP would be the vehicle by which a conservative take over of the GOP could be carried out.

But those hopes disappeared in a cloud of arrogant, near-sighted, self-glorifying, attacks by Tea Partiers against their erstwhile political allies, right-of-center candidates and GOP office holders, who apparently failed the (undefined and ever-changing) Tea Party purity test.

If the Soros/Obama/Pelosi cabal had set out to divide and conquer the conservative majority opposition, how could it have done so more effectively?

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Bottom line you're not going to win without us.

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Then we lose. Great strategy

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Quote: Tribune7 wrote in post #22

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I'd argue that there is not a dime's bit of difference between Chris Coons and Mike Castle .......

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Zitat

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National Review
http://www.nationalreview.com/campaign-s...voting-record#!

Castle has consistently led all polls and his voting history suggests he will vote with conservatives 52 percent of the time or so.
Over his 17 complete years in the U.S. House of Representatives, Castle has voted the conservative position, as defined by the American Conservative Union, about 52 percent of the time. In 2009, ACU scored Castle at 56.

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Chris Coons ratings:

Zitat

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NAACP: 100%
NARAL Pro-Choice America: 100%
Planned Parenthood: 100%
ACLU: 100%
American Immigration Lawyers Association: 100%
Federally Employed Women (2011): 100%

National Right to Life Committee: 0%
American Conservative Union (2010): 0%
Americans for Prosperity (2010): 0%
Competitive Enterprise Institute: 0%
National Rifle Association: 0%

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Zitat

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What was O'Donnell's big sin? She was a virgin and did witchy things

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That ignores the 2008 Senate Election where she was slaughtered by Joe Biden by an even larger margin. The "Witchcraft" issue did not surface until she blurted it out in September of 2010.

Zitat

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And Cruz didn't hurt himself or the party. Watch and see. He's on the side of history.

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This is not about being on the correct side of History. Lloyd Fredendall was also on "the right side of History" but that does not change the fact that the Afrika Korps ("wrong side of History") kicked the snot out of him. In a battle, you do not get any style points for being on "the right side of History".

While Ted Cruz solidified the love of the Tea Party people that already loved him, the affect of his actions on the rest of America was an absolute disaster:



Ted Cruz, still acting as if he were still back in Texas, courting an adoring Texas electorate and protected by a conservative Texas media, made a disastrous rookie mistake on the national stage. The NATIONAL news media destroyed him. No matter what happens in the future, Ted Cruz is now considered a national joke with the punchline being "Green Eggs and Ham". And, yes, that disaster DID affect the GOP a lot more than it affected Obama and the Democrats.

The 2008 race was a presidential race in which a long-time incumbent beat a newcomer whose party the populace was mad at.

On the things that counts -- the debt, judges, global warming, environmental matters, health care -- Castle wouldn't have voted much different than Coons. 52 percent is not 80 percent (the figure Reagan used regarding allies vs. traitors) Personally, I think it is better to have a 100 percent enemy in front front of you than a 50-percent friend behind you.

What those decent people inclined to accept the existing GOP leadership have to realize is that we in the Tea Party are not looking for fights. We are looking for articulation of the truth. We are looking for people willing to take on the media and to be called names on issues like Obamacare and our $17 trillion debt and right-to-work and the morality and necessity of immigration laws. Name me one person in the traditional leadership willing to do that. Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Mike Lee do that. They are hated by the leadership, which frankly many of us are starting to suspect are going along to get along because they are getting theirs in a very nice way.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #15

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #14

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Seems playing by the GOPe rules nobody wins but the democrats and cronies. In case you did not notice, the Diablos' hands are not clean here. Whats at stake is America's survival not the feelings of those who got us in this mess

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It's not about feelings, it's about winning.

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Quote: Snow lily wrote in post #21

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #16

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[quote=Cedric|p66740][quote=Mechanicos|p66739]

Bottom line you're not going to win without us.

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Then we lose. Great strategy

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #24

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[quote=Snow lily|p66747][quote=Mechanicos|p66741][quote=Cedric|p66740][quote=Mechanicos|p66739].....


We are and have been losing doing it the GOPe way. At least we offer a chance of winning. Cedric and his Rovian old guard do not.

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