Quote: Cincinnatus wrote in post #6

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I recommend you take the online course from Hillsdale College entitled •Constitution 101 - The Meaning and History of the Constitution.

The course is free and consists of 10 video lectures given by various faculty members at Hillsdale. It is accompanied by a reading list you can purchase for a deeper understanding of issues plus a discussion forum you can read and post to.

Hillsdale also 2 other free lecture courses, one which explains how we went wrong in the American experience and another that documents the Western Heritage - From the Book of Genesis to John Locke.

All are free and can be viewed at your leisure.

https://constitution.hillsdale.edu/101/info

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Mr Magoo . . . am curious . . .

Personally, while I revere, in a sense, our founding documents, I do not think they are 100 perfect and infallible or sacred in a spiritual sense.

I've wondered . . . if YOU were rewriting them, what might you change and why?

I think, myself,

I'd change the Presidency to one 6 year term as some originally wanted to do. And at the 3 year mark, I'd have a vote of confidence . . . if the President did not receive at least a 70% vote of confidence, a new election would be held within 60 days.

I'd change Congress so that no career politicians could take root for decades. No more than 2-3 terms for Reps and 2 terms for Senators.

All the Congress critters would have to be vulnerable to the same laws they passed on everyone else.

I might support say the top 3 reps from the PACIFIC, MOUNTAIN, CENTRAL, North Eastern and South Eastern regions as voted on within each region could have one additional term of office.

And, similarly the top 2 Senators from each region as voted on by the regions could have one extra term of office.

However, before such could apply, they would have to score 70% or above on a constituent voted humility scale. And above 80% on a constituent voted honesty scale.

I'd certainly have taxes at the federal level Constitutionally limited to a relatively small percentage. Not sure what would be sensible on that score. In the event of war or natural disaster requiring more, I'd put it to a referendum as to what the people wanted.

I'd certainly emphasize local governance and small governance over Federal governance. The Federal characters would only be about defense from foreign threats and interstate food, transportation and communications technical/safety standards only. And those standards would have to be ratified by the States to take effect every time there was a major revision of the regs. If the ratification process by the states fell below a 80-90% vote, the regs would have to be revised and tried again.

Every year, the congress critters would be assessed by a citizens watchdog group. Those 3-5% in each region voted as most corrupt, dishonest, power hungry would be removed from office immediately and a new election held.

I think most of the above will be moot after Christ takes charge of the planet in the not distant future.

However, perhaps He would still want the citizens to organize their own governmental structures. I don't know. LOL.

When I wrote this thread I had a few thoughts in mind.

First, the Founding Documents are no longer part of the progressive school curriculum. Due to this intentional lack of instruction today's voters are easily bamboozled.

Second, the Founding Documents may not have been perfect, but they were/are a damn sight better than what they have been changed into.

I am not as interested in rewriting them as restoring them.

Examples:
1- Delete the 17th Amendment restoring Senators to being elected by State Legislators. The original intent was dividing federal power in thirds, Administration (Pres, vice Pres), Senate representing State rights, Congress representing the people. With the Courts acting as referees.

2-The Declaration opens with our unalienable Rights, the first of them is Life. Abortion is not listed in the Constitution for this very reason.

3- Restore religious Freedoms. According to Jefferson's letters the separation of Church & State is not to deny all mention of faith but to prevent an official State Church. (like the Church of England)

4- Dissolve the Federal Reserve Board and restore monetary control to Congress where it belongs, not controlled by bankers. In the same vein, Currency should be based on tangible assets - NOT Debt.

5- Close Borders and restore enforcement of Immigration laws. They used to work very well. And if we cleansed our Society of illegals not only would crime drop substantially, but it would open up millions of jobs for citizens. Include in this ending the practice of anchor babies.

6- Remove the 16th Amendment. Taxation of the citizen's income is robbery, plain and simple. Original intent was Duties and Tariffs to fund a LIMITED Federal Government. I could possibly see a small flat sales tax to fund common infrastructure like roads and bridges.

7- Speaking of Duties and Tariffs, properly used they would encourage manufacturing to return to the U.S. Only manufacturing creates wealth. All other occupations are parasitic on the economy.

8- I agree with term limits for all elected offices.

9- Restore equal protection under the Law. No more of this hate crimes bullshit. All crime is based in hate.

10- While we are at it, remove the 20,000+ infringements to the 2nd Amendment.

11- Revamp Voter Laws to include verifiable PROOF of Identity AND Eligibility.

12- Clearly define application of Rights. Citizenship conveys full Rights including the right to vote and own property. Visitors with valid Visa have limited rights like the right to freely travel, protection from crime, etc. Illegals only have a right to deportation.

(this one could be sticky)
13- Restructure our Armed Forces to be an exceptionally strong but limited Defensive Force, not a bloated Offensive and Occupation Force. If we are attacked, then go full out, Total destruction of the attacking force and home Country, then go home. Nation building is not our responsibility. Besides, we can't afford it.

14- Kick the damn UN back to Brussels. And limit our Dues to no more than any other Country. While we are at it, you are authorized to give each UN Official a world class wedgie in the process.

Well, that's a start . . .

Great points. Much agree.

The taxation thing is a real important issue as is the size of the Federal government

And certainly the oligarchy and THE FED.

Thankfully, Christ WILL do away with the satanists 100%, 100% sure.

Thanks for your kind reply.

Heading to bed.

Quote: Mr_Magoo wrote in post #18

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When I wrote this thread I had a few thoughts in mind.

First, the Founding Documents are no longer part of the progressive school curriculum. Due to this intentional lack of instruction today's voters are easily bamboozled.

Second, the Founding Documents may not have been perfect, but they were/are a damn sight better than what they have been changed into.

I am not as interested in rewriting them as restoring them.

Examples:
1- Delete the 17th Amendment restoring Senators to being elected by State Legislators. The original intent was dividing federal power in thirds, Administration (Pres, vice Pres), Senate representing State rights, Congress representing the people. With the Courts acting as referees.

2-The Declaration opens with our unalienable Rights, the first of them is Life. Abortion is not listed in the Constitution for this very reason.

3- Restore religious Freedoms. According to Jefferson's letters the separation of Church & State is not to deny all mention of faith but to prevent an official State Church. (like the Church of England)

4- Dissolve the Federal Reserve Board and restore monetary control to Congress where it belongs, not controlled by bankers. In the same vein, Currency should be based on tangible assets - NOT Debt.

5- Close Borders and restore enforcement of Immigration laws. They used to work very well. And if we cleansed our Society of illegals not only would crime drop substantially, but it would open up millions of jobs for citizens. Include in this ending the practice of anchor babies.

6- Remove the 16th Amendment. Taxation of the citizen's income is robbery, plain and simple. Original intent was Duties and Tariffs to fund a LIMITED Federal Government. I could possibly see a small flat sales tax to fund common infrastructure like roads and bridges.

7- Speaking of Duties and Tariffs, properly used they would encourage manufacturing to return to the U.S. Only manufacturing creates wealth. All other occupations are parasitic on the economy.

8- I agree with term limits for all elected offices.

9- Restore equal protection under the Law. No more of this hate crimes bullshit. All crime is based in hate.

10- While we are at it, remove the 20,000+ infringements to the 2nd Amendment.

11- Revamp Voter Laws to include verifiable PROOF of Identity AND Eligibility.

12- Clearly define application of Rights. Citizenship conveys full Rights including the right to vote and own property. Visitors with valid Visa have limited rights like the right to freely travel, protection from crime, etc. Illegals only have a right to deportation.

(this one could be sticky)
13- Restructure our Armed Forces to be an exceptionally strong but limited Defensive Force, not a bloated Offensive and Occupation Force. If we are attacked, then go full out, Total destruction of the attacking force and home Country, then go home. Nation building is not our responsibility. Besides, we can't afford it.

14- Kick the damn UN back to Brussels. And limit our Dues to no more than any other Country. While we are at it, you are authorized to give each UN Official a world class wedgie in the process.

Well, that's a start . . .

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Good discussion.

In recent weeks, after Sandy Hook, I have been drawn into a number of pro/con gun arguments. As an ardent firearms collector and past president of a state gun owners association, I am frequently called upon to either debate the anti-gunners, or testify at the state legislature on various aspects of improving our Concealed Carry Law.
When these discussions start, I invariably ask if they really understood the reasons for the 2nd amendment and the formation of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
Most of the time the answer is no. For reasons only they know they refuse to even look at any publications by the NRA or any pro-gun organization to educate themselves.
When that occurs, I recommend the first three of the following titles.
If you want to learn more, or have a position based on what the founders intent was when written, I suggest them all.

Noah Webster: An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution
Written at the close of the Constitutional Convention, this book captures the mood of the framers, their arguments, and their hopes.
http://www.amazon.com/examination-princi...al+Constitution

Cesare Beccaria: On Crime and Punishments
Beccaria, using Reason, points the direction of future law. this is also the basis, in part, for the 2nd Amendment reasoning and the early rule of law that guided the framers.
[url]http://www.amazon.com/On-Crimes-Punishments-Cesare-Beccaria/dp/1619492628/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1357054361&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=becceria[/url

Noah Webster : Sketches of American Policy
The direction of the nation to the states, it's people, and the world
http://www.amazon.com/Sketches-American-...ds=Noah+Webster

And David Barton:The Second Amendment
In 58 pages, Barton destroys the anti-gun argument.
http://www.amazon.com/Second-Amendment-D...57055056&sr=1-2

Brevity, a free download of at least the first reference you list, is at: http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_s...=html&Itemid=27

I haven't looked for the others. Thanks for the list.

An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution by Noah Webster

Get a FREE copy of “An Examination into the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution” by Noah Webster

This treatise, originally published anonymously, was second only to the Federalist Papers in influencing ratification of the Constitution and indirectly expounds on Noah Webster’s view of Congressional power in regards to the General Welfare. Webster says,

“Every person, capable of reading, must discover, that the convention have labored to draw the line between the federal and provincial powers—to define the powers of Congress, and limit them to those general concerns which must come under federal jurisdiction, and which cannot be managed in the separate legislatures.”

Webster makes his views on Federalism and the General Welfare quite clear essentially saying that Congressional power to legislate for the General Welfare only exists when the issue at hand cannot be managed by the state legislatures.

You've been busy. Thank-You!

Somewhere in this discussion . . . I think it would be fitting to spend some time on the issue . . . I forget which early patriarch of our country said it . . . that our system of government is

not at all suited for

and

will not work for

a people who are not spiritually focused on God's values and priorities.

That is the foundational crux of our problem today.

The satanic globalist oligarchy has perverted the educational system thoroughly as well as a good percentage of the Christian denominations--all planned and quite deliberately--and quite successfully.

They have successfully called evil good and good evil.

They have successfully sold the idea from hell that there is "no right or wrong."

They have successfully sold the idea from hell that "if it feels good--do it--there are no consequences."

I'm don't believe that even a strict following of the founding documents by evil people would result in a preserved land flourishing in liberty and personal freedoms.

Quix,

Were you thinking of Washington's Farewell Address?

Zitat

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Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

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Or possibly Ben Franklin in a Speech to the Constitutional Convention (28 June 1787)

Zitat

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I’ve lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, — and I also believe that without his concurring Aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and Bye word down to future Ages. -

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Quote: Mr_Magoo wrote in post #27

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Quix,

Were you thinking of Washington's Farewell Address?

Zitat

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Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who that is a sincere friend to it can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?

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I think it was either that one or something by Franklin. IT was a one sentence summary of such paragraphs.

Given my study of globalism and knowing that Washington himself attested in his private letters the certainty that the 'Illuminati' 'brotherhood' were very much rooted and active here even then . . . I have wondered . . . given his documented involvement with them . . . if he didn't have some later misgivings . . . and in such writing as above was signaling the very dangerous hazards of going down their path.

I believe you might be referring to John Adams: Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.