Andy Williams often sang . . .

* Where do I begin
To tell the story of how great a love can be
The sweet love story that is older than the sea
The simple truth about the love she brings to me . . .

For me the "she" is this once great Nation. A Nation founded by men who had endured incomprehensible hardships and the horrors of open war. A war where due to limited medical knowledge even simple wounds were often crippling or fatal.

These dead white guys whose green faces appear on our currency had a vision. A vision of a Nation governed not by a King or an Emperor, but (gasp) by the people themselves. They were learned men. Men who studied various forms of Governments going back as far as ancient Greece and Rome. They were impressed with the stable Government the Swiss had. Some of the concepts found there made it into our Constitution.

When these men gathered in 1787 and fought over all these details for the next two years, they created a form of Limited Central Power, most of the true power was reserved to the States and the People themselves.

I honestly want to learn more about these events, but I admit I don't know where to begin. Actual records of the Constitutional Debates is very limited. One step to the side is the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers. Or, do I go back to the Treaty of Paris in 1783 where England surrendered to the United States. The Declaration of Independence? Common Sense written by Thomas Paine? Or the Magna Carta? Or all the way back to The Code of Hammurabi?

Are there some here who want to take this journey with me? I am sure the changes in the english language will frustrate and confuse me. But I still think that if we can relearn the beauty of the original Constitution we can spread that knowledge and perhaps save this Country from itself.







* "Where Do I Begin" music by Francis Lai and lyrics by Carl Sigman.

I have often wondered, what aspects of our founding values and structures might survive in Christ's Millennial reign/Kingdom.

There's not a lot of information to base even conjecture on.

I believe America has been a GREAT OBJECT LESSON to all creation that even the best form of government

apart from God

will devolve into horrific tyranny and evil.

Their also was a great fear in those Kings and Emperor's who realized that if a people could govern themselves then their generational bloodline kingdoms would fall so I believe they set out from the start to undermine the process.

I think this great Nation has never been able to be what our founder's intended its like the analogy of a sprint runner trying to break the 100 yard dash in ankle weights. I believe that those foreign Kingdoms knew that if they could not stop it outright a least put stumbling blocks in the way and find other ways of dismantling it that they could then keep their power in place.

The old saying where their is good evil is always present is true.

Those Kingdoms believed that time was not an issue being that their power was for the most part bloodline based and 100 to 200 year time lines was an acceptable one.

They still today don't see and have never seen the USA as a success or they would all have followed it.

Look forward to a discussion

This could be a good place to start. It was just posted by the Federalist Papers page on facebook. Download is at the link.

The Declaration of Independence: A Study on the History of Political Ideas by Carl Lotus Becker



GET A FREE COPY OF “The Declaration of Independence: A Study on the History of Political Ideas” by Carl Lotus Becker

Carl L. Becker’s important study is an analysis of the concepts expressed in the Declaration. His book is a lucid explanation of what the Declaration really is, what views it sets forth, where those views arose, and how they have been accepted or modified by succeeding generations. Becker also examines the theory of natural rights, the view the colonists had of their place in the British Empire, and the literary qualities of the Declaration.A book that every American should read.

bookmark.

A good place to start.

Gotta hit the rack, but I'll be back tomorrow.

I recommend you take the online course from Hillsdale College entitled •Constitution 101 - The Meaning and History of the Constitution.

The course is free and consists of 10 video lectures given by various faculty members at Hillsdale. It is accompanied by a reading list you can purchase for a deeper understanding of issues plus a discussion forum you can read and post to.

Hillsdale also 2 other free lecture courses, one which explains how we went wrong in the American experience and another that documents the Western Heritage - From the Book of Genesis to John Locke.

All are free and can be viewed at your leisure.

https://constitution.hillsdale.edu/101/info

Bookmark. Or, breadcrumbs.

2 good suggestions. I was poking around looking at stuff covering the lost Colony of Roanoke, the failures initially at Jamestown, etc. Looking for an idea to firmly set an anchor in, where the Dream began, a place to trace it's growth and travails from then to now.

Maybe the Declaration is a fair starting point.

Johnny 5 says "Need Input".

Quote: Mr_Magoo wrote in post #8

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2 good suggestions. I was poking around looking at stuff covering the lost Colony of Roanoke, the failures initially at Jamestown, etc. Looking for an idea to firmly set an anchor in, where the Dream began, a place to trace it's growth and travails from then to now.

Maybe the Declaration is a fair starting point.

Johnny 5 says "Need Input".

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Quote: steph wrote in post #9

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That would be cool too. I'm game for any of it myself. I am ashamed to admit that I didn't care for history when I was in school. It could be due to having a couple of braindead moron coaches for my history teachers who couldn't even get the facts right from the teacher's manual.

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Quote: Mr_Magoo wrote in post #10

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Quote: steph wrote in post #9

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That would be cool too. I'm game for any of it myself. I am ashamed to admit that I didn't care for history when I was in school. It could be due to having a couple of braindead moron coaches for my history teachers who couldn't even get the facts right from the teacher's manual.

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I am just as . . . and probably more guilty . . . than you. In High School my focus was firmly on Beth, then Pam, and Cheryl.

Turned out Pam knew Cheryl, so I dropped out and joined the Air Force for 8 years.

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Steph, your civics teacher sounds like my psychology teacher in high school.

On the first day of class we were issued a text book. Every day thereafter he would open the book and pull out written page at the same time.

On the written page was a basic outline for the chapter. The outline was his guide of the "keywords" (those didn't exist back then) and main topics of each page.

He would then go to that written paragraph or sentence that discussed the "keyword" and read from the text verbatim.

The only time he got interested in psychology was during the Ted Bundy trial. He brought in news articles and talked about Bundy's history.

Other than Ted Bundy, I don't remember anything else from the class.

He was the girl's basketball coach, though.

i have always loved history. When I was a mere stripling I devoured my older brother's high school history book though he was several years ahead of me. Just today I went to a book store to buy a gift for one of my sons. They didn't have what I intended to get him but no matter. I bought Robert K. Massie's biography Catherine the Great for myself instead. (For the record I am a huge fan of Massie. This will be my third history/biography by him.)

Palinista at least your teacher used subject related content. Making words out of Merry Christmas and Happy New Year had zilch to do with how the government operates. I was at least fortunate enough to have a mother who was a teacher who had taught me early on to teach myself.

We have a nation full of people who had similar or worse education experiences and we wonder why we are where we are today.

Quote: Cincinnatus wrote in post #13

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i have always loved history. When I was a mere stripling I devoured my older brother's high school history book though he was several years ahead of me. Just today I went to a book store to buy a gift for one of my sons. They didn't have what I intended to get him but no matter. I bought Robert K. Massie's biography Catherine the Great for myself instead. (For the record I am a huge fan of Massie. This will be my third history/biography by him.)

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