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PLAYBOY: Along with the other civil rights leaders, you have often proposed a massive program of economic aid, financed by the federal government, to improve the lot of the nation’s 20,000,000 Negroes. Just one of the projects you’ve mentioned, however—the HARYOU-ACT program to provide jobs for Negro youths—is expected to cost $141,000,000 over the next ten years, and that includes only Harlem. A nationwide program such as you propose would undoubtedly run into the billions.

MARTIN LUTHER KING: About 50 billion, actually—which is less than one year of our present defense spending. It is my belief that with the expenditure of this amount, over a ten-year period, a genuine and dramatic transformation could be achieved in the conditions of Negro life in America. I am positive, moreover, that the money spent would be more than amply justified by the benefits that would accrue to the nation through a spectacular decline in school dropouts, family breakups, crime rates, illegitimacy, swollen relief rolls, rioting and other social evils.

PLAYBOY: Do you think it’s realistic to hope that the Government would consider an appropriation of such magnitude other than for national defense?

MARTIN LUTHER KING: I certainly do. This country has the resources to solve any problem once that problem is accepted as national policy. An example is aid to Appalachia, which has been made a policy of the federal government’s much touted war on poverty; one billion was proposed for its relief—without making the slightest dent in the defense budget. Another example is the fact that after World War Two, during the years when it became policy to build and maintain the largest military machine the world has ever known, America also took upon itself, through the Marshall Plan and other measures, the financial relief and rehabilitation of millions of European people. If America can afford to underwrite its allies and ex-enemies, it can certainly afford—and has a much greater obligation, as I see it—to do at least as well by its own no-less-needy countrymen.

PLAYBOY: Do you feel it’s fair to request a multibillion-dollar program of preferential treatment for the Negro, or for any other minority group?

MARTIN LUTHER KING:I do indeed. Can any fair-minded citizen deny that the Negro has been deprived? Few people reflect that for two centuries the Negro was enslaved, and robbed of any wages—potential accrued wealth which would have been the legacy of his descendants. All of America’s wealth today could not adequately compensate its Negroes for his centuries of exploitation and humiliation. It is an economic fact that a program such as I propose would certainly cost far less than any computation of two centuries of unpaid wages plus accumulated interest. In any case, I do not intend that this program of economic aid should apply only to the Negro; it should benefit the disadvantaged of all races.

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http://holygypsy.wordpress.com/2009/07/1...yboy-interview/

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #26

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #24

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #23

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #20

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" New forms of work that enhance the social good will have to be devised for those for whom traditional jobs are not available."


"Social good". What did he mean when he said that?

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I don't know. What do you think? Was he speaking to racial equality or to economic policies?

His politics may have been ascew but I daresay nobody but the Communist sniffers know squat about MLK Jr's politics.

His memory is cherished for his civil rights struggle against a segregationalist environment that sought to ensure that a race of people remained as second class.

At the right time he spoke God's truth to that beast and it crackled.

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I think it is one of those terms that could mean anything. Like "common sense" or "general welfare". I don't have enough context to understand it.

Sometimes I find myself wondering if I can fully understand King, only because he died too soon. I wonder what the world would look like today if he had lived longer.

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It's a bit irrelevant as well. He died so it'd only be speculation.

If economics is what King was talking about, then the baggers at my grocery store would seem to fit the category. These are mentally challenged individuals [in the 60's they would have been institutionalized] but they are working at what might be called "a new form of work" that is to their benefit and ours. It is great.

There's so much inspiration that we can find in King's speeches about "judging each other by the content of character vs color of skin" etc.
I can't figure out what is to gain by shining a really bright light elsewhere. As I said in another post "we hold this treasure in jars of clay." Yes, we are fallen creatures.

Apparently if one looks into King's fallenness you will find a Communist sympathizer who abused women and cheated on his wife. Human beings have these great flaws, we do! but God still saw fit to use him. That's miraculous.
Bing Crosby beat his son? [so don't listen to White Christmas anymore] John Calvin burned his enemies at the stake? [forget TULIP] Albert Einstein couldn't keep a wife happy? [what an idiot, no more genius status for him]
OMG!! can you believe all that? And it's all true!!! But so what? Do you get my point?

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Palinista,

Thats the closest anyone has come to understanding my conceern with the outright trashing of MLK we went through yesterday. MLK was "nailed" by freeperjohn. And he used MLK's own words! which is the best way to nail someone. So who could have any positive thoughts about him after that?

But God used him, warts and all. Just like God does with us, to a lesser extent. Blame God for choosing such an obviously imperfect vessel. But judging the man from 50+ years of hindsight and progress isn't fair at all. He sounded an alarm that needed to be heard.

For the life of me I do not see why this is so difficult to see.

TM

Btw, the "new King Memorial" is a disgrace in so many ways.

editied to clarify that the statue of MLK is a bureaucratic botched-up job.

FJ -

Thank you for your thoughtful thread. Once again, we learn the glorification of a "hero" is only a myth. MLK gunned down early in his life, like JFK and RFK. We now know, we have ascribed greatness, where if these men would have lived their lives out, we would see them for what they truly were....men with clay feet. JFK and RFK are revered as heroes while Ted Kennedy is viewed as a pure mortal far from any greatness. Yet, Ted Kennedy accomplished much more in his lifetime than his brothers combined. But, it is Ted Kennedy’s “whole life” that we judge not so for his brothers. Camelot ended with Ted Kennedy and the children of the family who proved all was not as rosy as it seemed.

I wonder if MLK would be proud of what he started or espoused. Is the Black race any better off today than it was 50 years ago? We have seen much help given to the Black race since the death of MLK but has it helped or hindered the lives of the average Black man or women? Like Obama today, seems to me, you can’t redistribute wealth and make a better society or a better generation. It is only through hard work, trials, tribulations and self- accomplishments do you earn self-respect and appreciate what you have. If, I have "given anything" to my son, I hope it was self-esteem. Self-esteem, enough to know, if you want the important things in life then you have to go out and get it for yourself because it cannot be given to you on a silver platter. That is what my parents taught me, I worry and second guess myself all the time, in hopes I passed on enough of this “work ethics” to my son.

I laugh to myself, when I see the care my son gives to the car he has today. The car he bought and paid for himself with his own sweat. He was “given” two cars for school transportation and they were never washed and before I could ride with him, I had to clear myself space to sit. I had dents in my walls from all the golf practice that happen inside the house while I was at work. Now, I notice he practices his golf swings on his lawn outside. The lawn he mows and doesn’t have to be told ….to mow !! Such, are the lessons of life that Bill Cosby tried to convey and was rebuffed. This “communism” and “social justice” that Obama and MLK want(ed), for the less fortunate, will never work when it is “given” and not “earned”.

Just my 2 cents ………

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #33

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Palinista,

Thats the closest anyone has come to understanding my conceern with the outright trashing of MLK we went through yesterday. MLK was "nailed" by freeperjohn. And he used MLK's own words! which is the best way to nail someone. So who could have any positive thoughts about him after that?

But God used him, warts and all. Just like God does with us, to a lesser extent. Blame God for choosing such an obviously imperfect vessel. But judging the man from 50+ years of hindsight and progress isn't fair at all. He sounded an alarm that needed to be heard.

For the life of me I do not see why this is so difficult to see.

TM

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #37

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #33

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Palinista,

Thats the closest anyone has come to understanding my conceern with the outright trashing of MLK we went through yesterday. MLK was "nailed" by freeperjohn. And he used MLK's own words! which is the best way to nail someone. So who could have any positive thoughts about him after that?

But God used him, warts and all. Just like God does with us, to a lesser extent. Blame God for choosing such an obviously imperfect vessel. But judging the man from 50+ years of hindsight and progress isn't fair at all. He sounded an alarm that needed to be heard.

For the life of me I do not see why this is so difficult to see.

TM

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I agree with what freeperjohn posted, in fact I thought is was common knowledge to most conservatives. I can also recognize positive did come from his time in the limelight. When Reagan was strong armed into signing the federal holiday I was relatively young, but understood the sham it was and is still.

What falls on deaf ears to me is tossing God into the mix to cover for the facts his flaws were what made him what so many admire. He stole and lied to get to the position to "make" change for starters. That is not debateable.

I have never once pondered why God used Pol Pot, Stalin or Obama to do his work.

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MLK was just a man, not God. He did bring about a necessary change because of his inspired speeches. It doesn't hurt to find out about the man but he was used despite his flaws. Even if he did filch the speech it was given at the right time for it to be accepted. It is just the way it is.

Even as late as the late 80's in a small southern Louisiana town segregation was still practiced by a racist bastard doctor. I went with a friend to a doctor's appointment and unbeknownst to us we went into the small waiting room to wait for the appointment. A nice older black lady took me aside and whispered in my ear that I could go into the other waiting room. I went and looked and it was very large and very white. Needless to say, I didn't bother going to the "right" one. I was young, pretty naive and clueless about the issue as I grew up in a small town that was totally different.

Quote: Justme wrote in post #39

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #38

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #37

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #33

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Palinista,

Thats the closest anyone has come to understanding my conceern with the outright trashing of MLK we went through yesterday. MLK was "nailed" by freeperjohn. And he used MLK's own words! which is the best way to nail someone. So who could have any positive thoughts about him after that?

But God used him, warts and all. Just like God does with us, to a lesser extent. Blame God for choosing such an obviously imperfect vessel. But judging the man from 50+ years of hindsight and progress isn't fair at all. He sounded an alarm that needed to be heard.

For the life of me I do not see why this is so difficult to see.

TM

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I agree with what freeperjohn posted, in fact I thought is was common knowledge to most conservatives. I can also recognize positive did come from his time in the limelight. When Reagan was strong armed into signing the federal holiday I was relatively young, but understood the sham it was and is still.

What falls on deaf ears to me is tossing God into the mix to cover for the facts his flaws were what made him what so many admire. He stole and lied to get to the position to "make" change for starters. That is not debateable.

I have never once pondered why God used Pol Pot, Stalin or Obama to do his work.

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Well you'll be glad to know, neither have I pondered such but I daresay the comparison of MLK to Pol Pot lacks credibility.

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I'm not comparing the two men, I am questioning bringing God into the debate to bolster personal views. Much of what is being discussed has been known for years. Suggesting the blame lies with God for MLK's flaws is a little wacky imo. I also have no problem what-so-ever being able to see the dishonest, hypocritical and possibly evil behavior coming from a man who did good deeds as well. I just disagree we should ignore it.

I don't know God uses anyone to a greater or lesser extent, that's not a judgment call I think we can honestly make.

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I just made a comment on the thread. If I recall correctly I believe I was writing my post when I saw the bubble at the top saying where you posted. It was not directed to anyone in particular. I just just stated my opinion only. I just know that experiencing and seeing blatant segregation 20+ years after the Civil Rights Act was passed was eye opening for me.

Quote: Justme wrote in post #39

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I'm not comparing the two men, I am questioning bringing God into the debate to bolster personal views. Much of what is being discussed has been known for years. Suggesting the blame lies with God for MLK's flaws is a little wacky imo. I also have no problem what-so-ever being able to see the dishonest, hypocritical and possibly evil behavior coming from a man who did good deeds as well. I just disagree we should ignore it.

I don't know God uses anyone to a greater or lesser extent, that's not a judgment call I think we can honestly make.

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Quote: Sanguine wrote in post #44

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #39

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I'm not comparing the two men, I am questioning bringing God into the debate to bolster personal views. Much of what is being discussed has been known for years. Suggesting the blame lies with God for MLK's flaws is a little wacky imo. I also have no problem what-so-ever being able to see the dishonest, hypocritical and possibly evil behavior coming from a man who did good deeds as well. I just disagree we should ignore it.

I don't know God uses anyone to a greater or lesser extent, that's not a judgment call I think we can honestly make.

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I think I may have been the "guilty party" bringing God into the conversation by saying "I just re-read the "I have a dream" speech on Rev's thread (Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have A Dream" Speech) and it occurred to me that God sometimes uses very flawed vessels for His purposes."
Re-reading it, it still seems pretty innocuous to me. I think I'm missing the point?

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