I have not seen this aspect of the immigration reform bill proposed by the Gang of 8 discussed anywhere else. Thanks again Rubio, McCain, Flake, and Graham.
Green Card Trojan Horse Fri May 17 12:26:08 PDT 2013 Norm Matloff
A very much-appreciated article in today's San Francisco Chronicle, titled "Green Card Plan for Students Stirs Worry," at
Unfortunately, access is subscription only, but it's good that the Chronicle covered this absolutely central topic, and my comments below will include what was in the article, and more.
What is different about this article from all other others about the Gang of 8 bill? This one is about the MOST dangerous of the tech-related provisions in the bill, "staple a green card." Yes, this part of the bill would be even more harmful than the H-1B expansion.
The bill would in essence grant automatic green cards to all foreign STEM graduate students. This would be a huge blow to U.S. citizen and permanent resident STEM workers, and to U.S. STEM itself. Its adverse impact would eclipse the impact of expanded H-1B, bad as the latter would be.
Keep in mind that the difference between H-1B and green cards is that under the latter, the worker becomes a PERMANENT FIXTURE IN THE LABOR MARKET, i.e. the impact is CUMULATIVE. Though today many H-1Bs are also sponsored for green cards, most are not. So, the Gof8 bill's granting of automatic green cards would within a few years swell the STEM labor market like crazy. THAT WOULD GREATLY SUPPRESS STEM WAGES, causing major problems that I will show below.
As most of you know, although my research has shown that on average the foreign STEM students are not "the best and the brightest," I do strongly support facilitating the immigration of those who ARE in that league. But this legislation would make it HARDER for us to attract those top talents: The suppressed wages would make it unattractive for the outstanding students in other countries (who have other options) to study and later work in the U.S., exactly contrary to what Congress wants. Talk about perverse effects! Meanwhile, the mediocre students in other countries would see an easy green card, and come here in droves.
The universities would see this as a bonanza. They would increase foreign student tuition, knowing that the green card seekers would pay it. But a concomitant effect would be that the universities would lower their foreign student admissions standards.
The overall result of all this: A REDUCTION IN STEM QUALITY IN THE U.S.
My view of the public statements of the Gof8 and those of the industry lobbyists (which "for some odd reason" are strikingly similar) is that clearly certain parties are deliberately highlighting the H-1B parts of the bill in order to distract attention from this outrageous STEM green card provision. The latter is always described in the innocuous language "The bill would make it easier to get a green card"--an egregiously misleading understatement, as the bill would indiscriminantly give blanket green cards to all the STEM grad students, regardless of field, regardless of quality of school/student, in unlimited numbers.
As I said, that understatement, paired with the flurry of statements on H-1B, is clearly no accident. This is intended to distract attention from the enormous impact the STEM green card provision would have, just as all the Good Cop, Bad Cop focus on the Indian outsourcing firms is meant to distract attention from rampant abuse among the mainstream employers.
In short, the STEM green card section in Gof8 is a Trojan horse. I generally avoid such strong language, but the situation is quite obvious, in my opinion. . . . One of the popular buzz words today is "transformative." It's usually used in the positive sense, but the Gof8 STEM visas would be radically transformative in a negative sense, a historical event marking the decline of STEM in the U.S. Again, strong words, but I believe the situation is clear. "
Note: Dr. Norm Matloff is a professor of computer science at the University of California at Davis, and was formerly a professor of statistics at that university. He is a former database software developer in Silicon Valley, and has been a statistical consultant for firms such as the Kaiser Permanente Health Plan.
Note: The wages of STEM workers have already been suppressed severely under Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II. STEM workers currently compete against 'guest workers' and illegals who pay no or partial taxes, as well as legal immigrants. Like most more recent entrants, they come from traditions of big government and have no problem taking advantage of our safety nets and politically correct climate.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." Thomas Jefferson
Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #1I have not seen this aspect of the immigration reform bill proposed by the Gang of 8 discussed anywhere else. Thanks again Rubio, McCain, Flake, and Graham.
Green Card Trojan Horse Fri May 17 12:26:08 PDT 2013 Norm Matloff
A very much-appreciated article in today's San Francisco Chronicle, titled "Green Card Plan for Students Stirs Worry," at
Unfortunately, access is subscription only, but it's good that the Chronicle covered this absolutely central topic, and my comments below will include what was in the article, and more.
What is different about this article from all other others about the Gang of 8 bill? This one is about the MOST dangerous of the tech-related provisions in the bill, "staple a green card." Yes, this part of the bill would be even more harmful than the H-1B expansion.
The bill would in essence grant automatic green cards to all foreign STEM graduate students. This would be a huge blow to U.S. citizen and permanent resident STEM workers, and to U.S. STEM itself. Its adverse impact would eclipse the impact of expanded H-1B, bad as the latter would be.
Keep in mind that the difference between H-1B and green cards is that under the latter, the worker becomes a PERMANENT FIXTURE IN THE LABOR MARKET, i.e. the impact is CUMULATIVE. Though today many H-1Bs are also sponsored for green cards, most are not. So, the Gof8 bill's granting of automatic green cards would within a few years swell the STEM labor market like crazy. THAT WOULD GREATLY SUPPRESS STEM WAGES, causing major problems that I will show below.
As most of you know, although my research has shown that on average the foreign STEM students are not "the best and the brightest," I do strongly support facilitating the immigration of those who ARE in that league. But this legislation would make it HARDER for us to attract those top talents: The suppressed wages would make it unattractive for the outstanding students in other countries (who have other options) to study and later work in the U.S., exactly contrary to what Congress wants. Talk about perverse effects! Meanwhile, the mediocre students in other countries would see an easy green card, and come here in droves.
The universities would see this as a bonanza. They would increase foreign student tuition, knowing that the green card seekers would pay it. But a concomitant effect would be that the universities would lower their foreign student admissions standards.
The overall result of all this: A REDUCTION IN STEM QUALITY IN THE U.S.
My view of the public statements of the Gof8 and those of the industry lobbyists (which "for some odd reason" are strikingly similar) is that clearly certain parties are deliberately highlighting the H-1B parts of the bill in order to distract attention from this outrageous STEM green card provision. The latter is always described in the innocuous language "The bill would make it easier to get a green card"--an egregiously misleading understatement, as the bill would indiscriminantly give blanket green cards to all the STEM grad students, regardless of field, regardless of quality of school/student, in unlimited numbers.
As I said, that understatement, paired with the flurry of statements on H-1B, is clearly no accident. This is intended to distract attention from the enormous impact the STEM green card provision would have, just as all the Good Cop, Bad Cop focus on the Indian outsourcing firms is meant to distract attention from rampant abuse among the mainstream employers.
In short, the STEM green card section in Gof8 is a Trojan horse. I generally avoid such strong language, but the situation is quite obvious, in my opinion. . . . One of the popular buzz words today is "transformative." It's usually used in the positive sense, but the Gof8 STEM visas would be radically transformative in a negative sense, a historical event marking the decline of STEM in the U.S. Again, strong words, but I believe the situation is clear. "
Note: Dr. Norm Matloff is a professor of computer science at the University of California at Davis, and was formerly a professor of statistics at that university. He is a former database software developer in Silicon Valley, and has been a statistical consultant for firms such as the Kaiser Permanente Health Plan.
Note: The wages of STEM workers have already been suppressed severely under Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II. STEM workers currently compete against 'guest workers' and illegals who pay no or partial taxes, as well as legal immigrants. Like most more recent entrants, they come from traditions of big government and have no problem taking advantage of our safety nets and politically correct climate.
Thank you for posting (with the all too common lately, ). Tar and feathers are too light for these bastids. This will not end well.
Rubios bill, which , he lies about , makes all illegals non deportable from day one. Period. And not one thing other than lip service to secure the border. I guess you can trust homeland security to have the proper democrat voter guide s on hand.
I am not a republican I am a conservative, and supporter of the rule of law. And refuse to support any of Roves dopes.
ZitatThank you for posting (with the all too common lately, ). Tar and feathers are too light for these bastids. This will not end well.
Amen to that !
While posting this article a thought came to me of how these actions by the political elite subtly reflect a mind set consistent with statism / communism / fascism, i.e. denial that we do not all come into the world the same. Therefore we all will not have the seem outcomes. Excelling at STEM fields, sports, art, teaching, etc all require a combination of heredity, education, and hard work. Some of us will never be good software engineers; others will never be good neurosurgeons.
Quote: nerd wrote in post #4Rubios bill, which , he lies about , makes all illegals non deportable from day one. Period. And not one thing other than lip service to secure the border. I guess you can trust homeland security to have the proper democrat voter guide s on hand.
They'll be given out by social service workers along with pre-approved applications for sundry benefits. and a legal card to ensure they know their rights as 'disadvantaged minorities'.
Quote: nerd wrote in post #4Rubios bill, which , he lies about , makes all illegals non deportable from day one. Period. And not one thing other than lip service to secure the border. I guess you can trust homeland security to have the proper democrat voter guide s on hand.
They'll be given out by social service workers along with pre-approved applications for sundry benefits. and a legal card to ensure they know their rights as 'disadvantaged minorities'.
"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." Thomas Jefferson
RIGHT'S RIGHT 
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Sat May 18, 2013 10:22 am
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). Tar and feathers are too light for these bastids. This will not end well.
