Quote: Weird Tolkienish Figure wrote in post #15

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #12

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Quote: Weird Tolkienish Figure wrote in post #11

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Elections may have been subverted, there may be fraudulent votes.

Doesn't mean we're in a "pre-revoluationary state".

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With all due respect it doesn't mean we're not either.

Remember also that when we actually were in a pre-revolutionary state back in 1774-1775, only 1/3 of the population was engaged, if that. Another 1/3 were actively involved in being allied with the British, and the remaining third just wanted it all to go away and pretend it wasn't happening.

Things haven't changed much.

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So you think that 1/3rd of the population is in favor of violent revolution?

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #16

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Therefore, whatever the beliefs towards violent revolution may be does not mean one way or the other whether we are in a pre-revolutionary state or not. Once the citizenry becomes in favor of violence it is no longer a PRE state of revolution but becomes an ACTIVE state of revolution.

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #17

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #16

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Therefore, whatever the beliefs towards violent revolution may be does not mean one way or the other whether we are in a pre-revolutionary state or not. Once the citizenry becomes in favor of violence it is no longer a PRE state of revolution but becomes an ACTIVE state of revolution.

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The equation is different because violent revolution in this country in today's time would be much more destructive to the entire population than it was in the 1700s.

I am not prepared to watch the body count of American citizens on the nightly news. There would be millions of deaths this time.

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Zitat

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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #18

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I guess that's where we're different because while I cringe at the above scenario along with you, at the same time I am not prepared to be forced to live in a 3rd world communist hell-hole either. I personally would rather be dead at that point. I agree with Benjamin Franklin:

Zitat

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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

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Except that the government controls the data. The government controls weapons of mass destruction. The government picks which laws it will recognize and which it won't, so in that respect they have no respect for the concept of a "gentleman's war" where total war and total destruction would not be unleashed.

They control us. We've given them that control, but they own it.

As an American I can look at Egypt or Syria and think that their wars are awful. That is nothing compared to what revolution would look like here.

Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Quote: Palinista wrote in post #19

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #18

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I guess that's where we're different because while I cringe at the above scenario along with you, at the same time I am not prepared to be forced to live in a 3rd world communist hell-hole either. I personally would rather be dead at that point. I agree with Benjamin Franklin:

Zitat

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They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

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Except that the government controls the data. The government controls weapons of mass destruction. The government picks which laws it will recognize and which it won't, so in that respect they have no respect for the concept of a "gentleman's war" where total war and total destruction would not be unleashed.

They control us. We've given them that control, but they own it.

As an American I can look at Egypt or Syria and think that their wars are awful. That is nothing compared to what revolution would look like here.

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Could you explain this further? In what way? Most of us do have weapons and know how to use them. Are you saying our government would use chemical weapons on us?

Quote: Olivia wrote in post #21

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Could you explain this further? In what way? Most of us do have weapons and know how to use them. Are you saying our government would use chemical weapons on us?

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #22

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #21

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Could you explain this further? In what way? Most of us do have weapons and know how to use them. Are you saying our government would use chemical weapons on us?

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I know nothing of military planning.

I do know that the government controls data. And if the government already knows who everyone is and the heat gets turned up on rhetoric they will use the data against the forces within the population that could be the most effective fighting against tyranny.

They won't have to use just WMD.

How about when a modern day Patriot goes to the drugstore to pick up his life-sustaining prescription. Oops. There's an error. It's not authorized. It can't be filled. Scratch him off the list of guys in Tri-Corner hats that will rebel against the state.

How about controlling the air? Shut down the airports. Oops. Travel just got more difficult. How about controlling the food supply? Fuel supply?

As far as WMD. Well, sure.

But even before that would happen, turn off the electricity and water. That'll slow people down.

How about biological warfare instead of chemical?

The scenarios go off into infinity. And the government is more powerful than the people. Why unleash WMD when chaos will work, first?

How many millions will die? I know the Pentagon has the figures drawn up.

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #22

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #21

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Could you explain this further? In what way? Most of us do have weapons and know how to use them. Are you saying our government would use chemical weapons on us?

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I know nothing of military planning.

I do know that the government controls data. And if the government already knows who everyone is and the heat gets turned up on rhetoric they will use the data against the forces within the population that could be the most effective fighting against tyranny.

They won't have to use just WMD.

How about when a modern day Patriot goes to the drugstore to pick up his life-sustaining prescription. Oops. There's an error. It's not authorized. It can't be filled. Scratch him off the list of guys in Tri-Corner hats that will rebel against the state.

How about controlling the air? Shut down the airports. Oops. Travel just got more difficult. How about controlling the food supply? Fuel supply?

As far as WMD. Well, sure.

But even before that would happen, turn off the electricity and water. That'll slow people down.

How about biological warfare instead of chemical?

The scenarios go off into infinity. And the government is more powerful than the people. Why unleash WMD when chaos will work, first?

How many millions will die? I know the Pentagon has the figures drawn up.

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #24

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I'm not arguing any of that.

I'm just saying that I personally would rather be dead than live under tyranny.

Apparently others would rather be alive yet be slaves to that tyranny.

To each his own - but I would rather die.

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #23

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You might be right but if war broke out, there would be plenty of people fighting back, that's for sure. On top of that, we have some decent governors.
They would still have some control against the federal government, but you're right, it would be a chaotic catastrophe!

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #25

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #24

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I'm not arguing any of that.

I'm just saying that I personally would rather be dead than live under tyranny.

Apparently others would rather be alive yet be slaves to that tyranny.

To each his own - but I would rather die.

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Gramma, I will be among the first to die in a revolution because of my medical history. I've accepted that fact.

I do not know what my children would do.

I hope I have enough time to teach them more about Christ. That's where I focus.

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Quote: Cedric wrote in post #28

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It's already too late!

Overexposure to fluoride has compromised the purity and essence of our natural fluids.

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All we'd have to do is wear rags on our heads, call ourselves the Taliban and this government would roll over and play dead with nary a shot being fired.