Because, RTF, the democrats fight as a united team. The GOP doesnt. Why that fight when you're own damn team is going to shoot you in the foot?

Do you want to fight to fight or fight to win? I want what Lee wants, but it's a loser as implimented. That's why the GOP is sinking. Counting on the Red State Democrats is nuts! And we know there are too many GOP who are not on board. Call all the names you all like, thats always a winning strategy - in grade school maybe.

Quote: Rufus T Firefly wrote in post #17

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #16

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Because, RTF, the democrats fight as a united team. The GOP doesnt. Why that fight when you're own damn team is going to shoot you in the foot?

Do you want to fight to fight or fight to win? I want what Lee wants, but it's a loser as implimented. That's why the GOP is sinking. Counting on the Red State Democrats is nuts! And we know there are too many GOP who are not on board. Call all the names you all like, thats always a winning strategy - in grade school maybe.

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I've heard that argument, and I don't discount it.

But who exactly are you saying are the ones prone to "shooting in the foot?"

Would it be Rove and Co who - when they didn't "get their way" with having their establishment candidate get the Senate nomination in Delaware, did all they could to undermine O'donnell? Ditto Nevada. Ditto Missouri. Ditto Indiana.

Would it be Romney and Co. who effectively (some might say visciously) attacked his primary opponents - but in the general election turned to mush when facing a true enemy of conservatism and the Constitution?

You can even go back years and years to see this is not new, but an established pattern. In '64, the establishment of the day (the Rockefellers and the Scrantons) did more to undermine Goldwater than LBJ could have thought of.

You're right that the democrats NEVER lose sight of their goal, which is to win elections at all costs (and to hell with the country) That's why they circled the wagons around BJ Bill and Zero. And still, to this day, there's been no tell all book about his corrupt administration.

In the 8 short years that Reagan was on the scene, he showed how it's done - when you not only have an hostile opposition party, but a hostile media. You BELIEVE. You HAVE PRINCIPLES you'll DIE FOR. And, if you can communicate them well enough, you WILL be able to 'go around" the media and appeal DIRECTLY to the people.

But of course, after Reagan, we had to return to "normalcy"* with the Bushes and the Doles and the Roves and the Romneys.

Let me ask you - what EXACTLY have they fought for, and what EXACTLY have we "won?"

*"Normalcy" defined as "let's compromise". We'll do it the democrat's and media's way.

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #16

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Do you want to fight to fight or fight to win? I want what Lee wants, but it's a loser as implimented. That's why the GOP is sinking. Counting on the Red State Democrats is nuts! And we know there are too many GOP who are not on board. Call all the names you all like, thats always a winning strategy - in grade school maybe.

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Quote: conservgramma wrote in post #21

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Whenever the GOP are in the majority, they cave.

If there's a Democrat POTUS, the GOP caves.

If there's a GOP POTUS, the GOP seeks bipartisanship.

If the GOP is in the minority in the House, they cave.

If the GOP is in the minority in the Senate, they cave.

Basically the Dems will fight no matter what, and the GOP will refuse to fight no matter what. That's what I see. Why bother to have representation with those odds? Nobody fights for the conservative!

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Quote: Rufus T Firefly wrote in post #17

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #16

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Because, RTF, the democrats fight as a united team. The GOP doesnt. Why that fight when you're own damn team is going to shoot you in the foot?

Do you want to fight to fight or fight to win? I want what Lee wants, but it's a loser as implimented. That's why the GOP is sinking. Counting on the Red State Democrats is nuts! And we know there are too many GOP who are not on board. Call all the names you all like, thats always a winning strategy - in grade school maybe.

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I've heard that argument, and I don't discount it.

But who exactly are you saying are the ones prone to "shooting in the foot?"

Would it be Rove and Co who - when they didn't "get their way" with having their establishment candidate get the Senate nomination in Delaware, did all they could to undermine O'donnell? Ditto Nevada. Ditto Missouri. Ditto Indiana.

Would it be Romney and Co. who effectively (some might say visciously) attacked his primary opponents - but in the general election turned to mush when facing a true enemy of conservatism and the Constitution?

You can even go back years and years to see this is not new, but an established pattern. In '64, the establishment of the day (the Rockefellers and the Scrantons) did more to undermine Goldwater than LBJ could have thought of.

You're right that the democrats NEVER lose sight of their goal, which is to win elections at all costs (and to hell with the country) That's why they circled the wagons around BJ Bill and Zero. And still, to this day, there's been no tell all book about his corrupt administration.

In the 8 short years that Reagan was on the scene, he showed how it's done - when you not only have an hostile opposition party, but a hostile media. You BELIEVE. You HAVE PRINCIPLES you'll DIE FOR. And, if you can communicate them well enough, you WILL be able to 'go around" the media and appeal DIRECTLY to the people.

But of course, after Reagan, we had to return to "normalcy"* with the Bushes and the Doles and the Roves and the Romneys.

Let me ask you - what EXACTLY have they fought for, and what EXACTLY have we "won?"

*"Normalcy" defined as "let's compromise". We'll do it the democrat's and media's way.

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Quote: Rufus T Firefly wrote in post #24

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First off, you don't know me or anything about me - so sh*t can the phrase "guys like RTF"

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Quote: Justme wrote in post #23

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We can go back, but for what purpose? We may have won nothing, yet. But a divided house is not the way back either.

The whining Romney wasn't good enough gave us Obama again. It's my personal opinion those who helped him win again shot us in the foot.

Blaming Rove is such a cop out and popularity game if you ask me. He's just another talking head, not an elected official. That's shooting in the foot.

If we could defund it that would be great, but the fact is we don't control the Senate. Lee and company tried, but now all they will have is campaign talking points and further the divide. Even though persoanlly I like what they are proposing, even Im not dumb enough not to see they need to work with the others to achieve something. So while the dems play it safe and guard the home base. The GOP as a whole shoots themselves by not being able to work together.

What's weird to me is the sheer pleasure so many get from the divide. Being superior to progressives and liberals is a no brainer and fun. Pretending to be superior to fellow conservatives and attempting to trash the into submission is retarded.

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Cedric:

Zitat

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This one's got me scratchin' my head: This is such an obvious prat fall waiting to happen, I'm starting to wonder if this is just a gimmick on Lee's part.

He can't possibly be dumb enough to believe his gambit will work.

Also, Rove presented three workable ideas to atttack Obamacare.....ideas that are actually feasible.

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Oh brother twos side of the same coin, lol.

It would work everyone was aboard, including the few Red State Dems. But that is not the case. so instead they just fume and get all pissed off.

I can't blame him (them) for trying but not knowing when to deviate, compromise or back off leads to division. Unless, like others have repeatedly said now, going with their principles instead of going for a win is whats important. In which case they should be happy, but never are.

Quote: Justme wrote in post #28

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Cedric:

Zitat

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This one's got me scratchin' my head: This is such an obvious prat fall waiting to happen, I'm starting to wonder if this is just a gimmick on Lee's part.

He can't possibly be dumb enough to believe his gambit will work.

Also, Rove presented three workable ideas to atttack Obamacare.....ideas that are actually feasible.

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Oh brother twos side of the same coin, lol.

It would work everyone was aboard, including the few Red State Dems. But that is not the case. so instead they just fume and get all pissed off.

I can't blame him (them) for trying but not knowing when to deviate, compromise or back off leads to division. Unless, like others have repeatedly said now, going with their principles instead of going for a win is whats important. In which case they should be happy, but never are.

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I actually do blame Lee for "trying" this guaranteed loser because the MSM is already ridiculing him (and by extension the entire GOP) for being a tone deaf dork who can't even elicit meaningful support within his own caucus.

Also, he's runnin' around screaming that this is the last and only remedy available which is not true.

This whole thing looks like nothing more than summer doldrums fodder for the far-right kooks to get all exercised over.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #29

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I actually do blame Lee for "trying" this guaranteed loser because the MSM is already ridiculing him (and by extension the entire GOP) for being a tone deaf dork who can't even elicit meaningful support within his own caucus.

Also, he's runnin' around screaming that this is the last and only remedy available which is not true.

This whole thing looks like nothing more than summer doldrums fodder for the far-right kooks to get all exercised over.

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