Quote: musiclady wrote in post #15

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You'll have to forgive me for being gunshy, FP, but I have been beaten about the head until bloody on two other sites (FR by the right - I was lied about a lot there, TBL by the left - war and RE to an extreme) for saying sometimes innocuous things about my respect for President Bush as a person. I expect incoming when I say anything that is in any way, shape or form a defense of his character.

I'll say this, and then let it go.....

I flew in September, 2001, and personally, I was glad that people were checking passengers and our luggage after 9/11. One may call me a coward, or a sheeple for appreciating the added security, but that's how I felt.......and I still don't mind basic security checks of baggage. I do, however, deeply mind the personal searches and the X-rays. I understand that GWB set up the framework that can be abusive, but I strongly disagree with the accusation that his personal motivation was control over the people. It flies in the face of everything I know about who he is as a Believer, and as a person. I believe, in everything I have read about him personally, that his motivation was to protect this country. I do not agree with everything that was done, and it doesn't make me 'uncomfortable' that any politician does things that I don't agree with. I'm significantly more conservative than almost every politician out there (including Reagan, actually), so I don't expect them to work in complete accord with my views. I never have.

As for The Nevadan's comments about the immigration situation, I am also in partial disagreement there. While I firmly believe that the borders should have been shut down, and disagree with any form of amnesty, I believe his comment about 'vigilantes' was taken completely out of context and not what people assumed it meant, and I think he believed what he was doing would begin to solve the problem. Again......I didn't agree with the policy.

I am open to new information, and welcome it, realizing that most people as conservative as I am have a deep disdain for President Bush (not saying that about you), and already appreciate the fact that I have been able to say a few mildly positive things here about him, his Christianity and his character without being bombarded by name-calling and personal insults..........this IS a great forum.

I am an individual, and I can't be shoved in any box. I think for myself, and always have, am open for new thoughts and always seeking the truth, and am personally relieved that I have been able to express a different opinion here than the group without being attacked.

My respect for President Bush remains. My disagreement with a number of the decisions he made remains as well. And I am not alone among conservatives.

Thank you for being thoughtful and kind.

You have no idea how much it means to me.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #15

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You'll have to forgive me for being gunshy, FP, but I have been beaten about the head until bloody on two other sites (FR by the right - I was lied about a lot there, TBL by the left - war and RE to an extreme) for saying sometimes innocuous things about my respect for President Bush as a person. I expect incoming when I say anything that is in any way, shape or form a defense of his character.

I'll say this, and then let it go.....

I flew in September, 2001, and personally, I was glad that people were checking passengers and our luggage after 9/11. One may call me a coward, or a sheeple for appreciating the added security, but that's how I felt.......and I still don't mind basic security checks of baggage. I do, however, deeply mind the personal searches and the X-rays. I understand that GWB set up the framework that can be abusive, but I strongly disagree with the accusation that his personal motivation was control over the people. It flies in the face of everything I know about who he is as a Believer, and as a person. I believe, in everything I have read about him personally, that his motivation was to protect this country. I do not agree with everything that was done, and it doesn't make me 'uncomfortable' that any politician does things that I don't agree with. I'm significantly more conservative than almost every politician out there (including Reagan, actually), so I don't expect them to work in complete accord with my views. I never have.

As for The Nevadan's comments about the immigration situation, I am also in partial disagreement there. While I firmly believe that the borders should have been shut down, and disagree with any form of amnesty, I believe his comment about 'vigilantes' was taken completely out of context and not what people assumed it meant, and I think he believed what he was doing would begin to solve the problem. Again......I didn't agree with the policy.

I am open to new information, and welcome it, realizing that most people as conservative as I am have a deep disdain for President Bush (not saying that about you), and already appreciate the fact that I have been able to say a few mildly positive things here about him, his Christianity and his character without being bombarded by name-calling and personal insults..........this IS a great forum.

I am an individual, and I can't be shoved in any box. I think for myself, and always have, am open for new thoughts and always seeking the truth, and am personally relieved that I have been able to express a different opinion here than the group without being attacked.

My respect for President Bush remains. My disagreement with a number of the decisions he made remains as well. And I am not alone among conservatives.

Thank you for being thoughtful and kind.

You have no idea how much it means to me.

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We can all discuss and disagree on whether we liked/like George W. Bush or not...he wasn't conservative enough for me...but I would never "condemn him to hell."

Quote: Olivia wrote in post #18

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We can all discuss and disagree on whether we liked/like George W. Bush or not...he wasn't conservative enough for me...but I would never "condemn him to hell."

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The million dollar question is would you condemn Obama to hell? :)

Quote: Weird Tolkienish Figure wrote in post #16

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You certainly have every right to your opinion.

I personally went from a Ron Paul type libertarian who loathed Bush to one who gained my respect right at the time when even regular conservatives were abandoning him, 2008-ish when the bottom was falling out of the economy, and everyone blamed the guy for everything.

I still don't think the Iraq war was the best decision, however, I believe Bush was a man who earnestly believed he was doing the right thing and he was a good man who loved his country, despite the despicable tactics of those who wished to destroy him (like the fake national guard memos).

After 4 years of Obama, I fail to see how he looks bad in comparison.

This country is so broken after 9/11. We never recovered. :(

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Quote: FP123 wrote in post #17

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This is a great place indeed. I couldn't begin to count all of the great things that I have learned, copied, and/or bookmarked that have been posted by this site's members (on a whole host of topics).

And while we all don't always agree on every topic, we don't mock & ridicule one another over our lack of agreement. It is certainly your choice to develop your opinion of GWB's character & motivations based upon what you've read about him. I choose not to do that, about any of them.

And, just for the record, I have flown twice for business since 9/11, both times within a few of years after 9/11. Both times I had flight changes for business reasons (which I hear raises their "red flags"), the first time the guy I was flying with was molested by the TSA in Denver in a private room. (He was there one second with me going through security, the next minute he was gone! When he got back he told me that he had never been so violated in his life, he said that he was anally raped in a private room.) My last flight I was escorted to a private room in Atlanta and stripped down to my underwear from a business suit (they said they detected "explosive matter" on my hands and brief case). They didn't go beyond that, thank God! I was so pissed that I demanded a 1st class upgrade at the gate and got it (the agent said she hated the TSA)!

I have never flown since. If I can't drive somewhere, I simply don't go. I refuse to be a subjected to this tyranny. I don't mind driving (at least until the VIPER teams take to the highways in a big way) so I've been able to see friends and family all over the country and have avoided all of the hassles of flying. It's a good thing that I traveled to many continents and countries in the past because it doesn't look like I will see any other country besides more of Canada before I die. And that suits me just fine at this point in my life.

That's well and good for me, but it pisses me off to no end that other people can no longer take their families on a nice vacation (especially off the mainland of the US) without being violated. And my son has to travel at least twice a year for his business, he has no choice at this point in time. Although he is thinking of using 2 weeks of vacation days so that he can drive across the country for the Summer trip. He likes to drive and explore all over so this works for him, but only once a year. And how about the family that might want to fly down to Disney World for a quick school vacation? Unless they are within a day's drive, they're SOL unless they want to risk their kids/spouse being violated by two-bit agents of tyranny. None of this should have ever been allowed to happen, not in the country that I was born into.

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Quote: Weird Tolkienish Figure wrote in post #20

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The million dollar question is would you condemn Obama to hell? :)

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #19

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #18

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We can all discuss and disagree on whether we liked/like George W. Bush or not...he wasn't conservative enough for me...but I would never "condemn him to hell."

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That's the only reason I made a comment, Olivia.

It's one thing to say Bush made the wrong decision, or even question his motives, but condemning him to hell is excessive and wrong, and that's why I, after reflecting a long time, decided to make the comment I did.

The hatred for President Bush can be found everywhere. I value the rational discussion here, and that, to me, was not rational.

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

Edited to add............I find it curious that you had less trust of your government under Bush than you did under the ruthless liar, Clinton (innocence??), and that your emotions are about Bush and not as much for the terror attack that created what he believed to be the need for national protection by the government.

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #27

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #27

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

Edited to add............I find it curious that you had less trust of your government under Bush than you did under the ruthless liar, Clinton (innocence??), and that your emotions are about Bush and not as much for the terror attack that created what he believed to be the need for national protection by the government.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #27

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

Edited to add............I find it curious that you had less trust of your government under Bush than you did under the ruthless liar, Clinton (innocence??), and that your emotions are about Bush and not as much for the terror attack that created what he believed to be the need for national protection by the government.

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