Quote: Palinista wrote in post #26

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When I first heard the words, "Department of Homeland Security" a chill went down my spine. I knew that nothing good could ever come of it. I had no solace in a false belief that the government would protect me from harm. I only saw a weakening of my rights as an American.

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #6

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Whenever I read about the TSA I think of Benjamin Franklin who warned us, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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Zitat

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Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say "what should be the reward of such sacrifices?" Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #28

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #27

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

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Thank you for your words, musiclady.

I'm sorry if you found my words extreme. They are heartfelt. I have experienced a loss of personal liberty in my past. When I see the changes that have happened in my country in such a short time I can only see difficulties and a lessening of my rights in the future. While you may not agree with my sentiment, I know that you have spoken of feeling negatively about the direction of our nation. This is something we agree upon, even if we have different starting points. I respect your point of view and I hope you can do the same with mine.

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #30

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #27

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

Edited to add............I find it curious that you had less trust of your government under Bush than you did under the ruthless liar, Clinton (innocence??), and that your emotions are about Bush and not as much for the terror attack that created what he believed to be the need for national protection by the government.

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I just saw your edit. ;)

During the Clinton years I was much younger. I loathed Clinton because while he was president my husband served in the military. I knew that his policies were harmful to our military. I did not respect him as Commander-in-Chief.

I will say this. While I have come to question our military action in Iraq, I always supported President Bush's military response to September 11th. I do support our military. I know some of what they sacrifice while they serve. I do believe that Bush tried to be a good Commander-in-Chief. And I have no doubt that he appreciates the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. If I had to judge President Bush's presidency based upon his respect and regard for our military, I would rank him very high. Higher than most.

It's the other half of the coin that disturbs me. While no airplanes have flown into buildings killing Americans in the name of Islam, I do not feel more secure as a person. I can see the damage done in the years since then. A lot of that damage came from the White House under George W. Bush. More will come under Obama and whoever follows as president. Once Executive Power grows, it is very difficult to roll it back.

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Quote: Mr_Magoo wrote in post #34

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #6

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Whenever I read about the TSA I think of Benjamin Franklin who warned us, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

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My favorite quote is from Samuel Adams in his speech in Philadelphia (1 August 1776)

Zitat

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Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say "what should be the reward of such sacrifices?" Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

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All true and we have lost much and will lose more, obama is bastardizing homeland security to come after your guns.

Quote: nerd wrote in post #29

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #27

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Thanks for revealing the personal emotion behind your extreme words, Palenista.

It helps to understand where you're coming from.

I don't agree, but I respect your feelings.

Edited to add............I find it curious that you had less trust of your government under Bush than you did under the ruthless liar, Clinton (innocence??), and that your emotions are about Bush and not as much for the terror attack that created what he believed to be the need for national protection by the government.

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Now you are guilty of "goading", are you going to demand that he explain his feelings toward each president in turn.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #15

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You'll have to forgive me for being gunshy, FP, but I have been beaten about the head until bloody on two other sites (FR by the right - I was lied about a lot there, TBL by the left - war and RE to an extreme) for saying sometimes innocuous things about my respect for President Bush as a person. I expect incoming when I say anything that is in any way, shape or form a defense of his character.

I'll say this, and then let it go.....

I flew in September, 2001, and personally, I was glad that people were checking passengers and our luggage after 9/11. One may call me a coward, or a sheeple for appreciating the added security, but that's how I felt.......and I still don't mind basic security checks of baggage. I do, however, deeply mind the personal searches and the X-rays. I understand that GWB set up the framework that can be abusive, but I strongly disagree with the accusation that his personal motivation was control over the people. It flies in the face of everything I know about who he is as a Believer, and as a person. I believe, in everything I have read about him personally, that his motivation was to protect this country. I do not agree with everything that was done, and it doesn't make me 'uncomfortable' that any politician does things that I don't agree with. I'm significantly more conservative than almost every politician out there (including Reagan, actually), so I don't expect them to work in complete accord with my views. I never have.

As for The Nevadan's comments about the immigration situation, I am also in partial disagreement there. While I firmly believe that the borders should have been shut down, and disagree with any form of amnesty, I believe his comment about 'vigilantes' was taken completely out of context and not what people assumed it meant, and I think he believed what he was doing would begin to solve the problem. Again......I didn't agree with the policy.

I am open to new information, and welcome it, realizing that most people as conservative as I am have a deep disdain for President Bush (not saying that about you), and already appreciate the fact that I have been able to say a few mildly positive things here about him, his Christianity and his character without being bombarded by name-calling and personal insults..........this IS a great forum.

I am an individual, and I can't be shoved in any box. I think for myself, and always have, am open for new thoughts and always seeking the truth, and am personally relieved that I have been able to express a different opinion here than the group without being attacked.

My respect for President Bush remains. My disagreement with a number of the decisions he made remains as well. And I am not alone among conservatives.

Thank you for being thoughtful and kind.

You have no idea how much it means to me.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #36

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Which is why I had trouble with the gov't policies set up under Bush. I trusted Bush to handle them, but knew they would be abused under any liberal (or Nixonian) President, which is why I was so afraid when a Marxist America-hater was elected, and am more afraid now that he has been reelected.

As for Clinton, I was plenty old when he was President, and I despised what he did to the Presidency and the country. That's part of the reason I was so thankful for the respect that George W. Bush always had...........almost a reverance..........for the office of President, and how he handled himself as President.

He didn't abuse it.

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Sorry. I posted incorrectly. I tried to delete all of it and failed. When I mess up a post, I really mess up! My apologies.

nerd, I agree with your quote selection. Thank you for posting.

musiclady!!

Here is my post to you.

Actually, we don't agree.

I see that President George W. Bush did things in office that trampled upon my liberty.

That is is the cutting off point for me.

I don't care if he professes to be a Christian or is a good man. He probably is. He is probably a great guy. I don't know him personally, but as a human being, I don't hate the man.

Instead, I fear men like him. Men who do things that they know are wrong, that they know will hurt Americans, and do them anyway. This I cannot abide.

Certainly not in the man I voted for! I expect more of my president. I expect my president to do more than honor the office. I expect him to defend my rights as an American. I trusted him. He betrayed me.

Quote: Palinista wrote in post #41

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Sorry. I posted incorrectly. I tried to delete all of it and failed. When I mess up a post, I really mess up! My apologies.

nerd, I agree with your quote selection. Thank you for posting.

musiclady!!

Here is my post to you.

Actually, we don't agree.

I see that President George W. Bush did things in office that trampled upon my liberty.

That is is the cutting off point for me.

I don't care if he professes to be a Christian or is a good man. He probably is. He is probably a great guy. I don't know him personally, but as a human being, I don't hate the man.

Instead, I fear men like him. Men who do things that they know are wrong, that they know will hurt Americans, and do them anyway. This I cannot abide.

Certainly not in the man I voted for! I expect more of my president. I expect my president to do more than honor the office. I expect him to defend my rights as an American. I trusted him. He betrayed me.

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I voted for w, the first time, but did not the second time, the minute he started growing government, he and I were finished. The minute a president starts spending it seems to last forever, so even today, the growth that W started continues and will forever, plus 10% a year, that is the monster called base line budgeting.

Quote: W-Girl wrote in post #42

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #41

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Sorry. I posted incorrectly. I tried to delete all of it and failed. When I mess up a post, I really mess up! My apologies.

nerd, I agree with your quote selection. Thank you for posting.

musiclady!!

Here is my post to you.

Actually, we don't agree.

I see that President George W. Bush did things in office that trampled upon my liberty.

That is is the cutting off point for me.

I don't care if he professes to be a Christian or is a good man. He probably is. He is probably a great guy. I don't know him personally, but as a human being, I don't hate the man.

Instead, I fear men like him. Men who do things that they know are wrong, that they know will hurt Americans, and do them anyway. This I cannot abide.

Certainly not in the man I voted for! I expect more of my president. I expect my president to do more than honor the office. I expect him to defend my rights as an American. I trusted him. He betrayed me.

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Palinista

Just curious, and you don't have to say if you don't want to, but DID YOU VOTE FOR W in 2004 or did you vote for John Kerry ??

Because the TSA started shortly after 2002 ??

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #44

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Quote: W-Girl wrote in post #42

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Palinista

Just curious, and you don't have to say if you don't want to, but DID YOU VOTE FOR W in 2004 or did you vote for John Kerry ??

Because the TSA started shortly after 2002 ??

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The TSA was signed into law as part of the Aviation and Transportation Security Act on November 19, 2001.

I see President George W. Bush's grab for power and rush to "DO SOMETHING!" in November of 2001 in the same way that I look at President Obama's response to the Sandy Hook shooting. Never let a crisis go to waste.

I voted for George W. Bush in 2000.

I was in the hospital on election day in 2004 and unable to vote.

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