Quote: Olivia wrote in post #28

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I feel more frustration with the republican leaders in Washington than anything else. They have to know that Obama is operating around them to get his way and yet we hear nothing from any of them. Maybe a token interest now & then for the camera's sake, but nothing like the outrage they should be expressing.
They are on the front to protect our constitution and they have failed at their job. I get no pleasure voting for any of them.

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The reality is as long as Harry Reid is the Majority Leader then nothing the R's want to do in furthering their agenda will happen. Why do you think 0bama is framing the sequestration issue to blame the GOP? It's so the D's can get the House back and ram the rest of his agenda through.

The fact is the R's only control 1/2 of 1/3 of the government.

Quote: steph wrote in post #27

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #23

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Quote: steph wrote in post #19

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #8

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Counter to the Party loyalists: Graham, McCain, Snow, Lehman, Etc. The GOPe is more to blame then the enemy for the same reason traitors do more damage to you then the enemy. So Nerd has a point. With GOP still having open Primaries there is no reason to be loyal to a party where they are elected in major part by the opposition. That being said, there is no way to fix the democrat party because its too far gone, but there is still some chance to fix the Republican party by voting out the Rhinos and voting in conservatives. There is no chance to have a 3rd party representation since the rigged electoral system and state run press will not allow for it no matter how we feel or vote, at least not in the foreseeable future.

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What happens when you win primaries with unelectable candidates in the general elections? Christine O'Donnell is the perfect example of winning the primary and losing big time to a bearded marxist in the general. Mike Castle was not a great choice but he would have been one more vote in firing Harry Reid. So now the senate is stuck with a marxist instead of a far more evil GOPe.

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Don't buy into that trick of the media and ruling class determining who is electable. America is still majority conservative. The GOP keeps putting up democrat-light and telling us we are wrong for not going with the rhino. YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH SANTA CLAUSE. Its insane to continue putting up so called "electable" which means ruling-class-approved candidates and then wondering why conservatives stay home and democrats/independents will still not vote for the Rino no matter how much he acts like a democrat.

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When conservatives throw their temper tantrums by sitting home when their choice in the primaries lose that simply means that the far worst person wins. That is utterly stupid and selfish. If you sit out elections then don't f'n complain about the outcome. The real problem is too many conservatives split the vote and the more moderate wins. It really is simple math.

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Boy, do I agree with your last statement here, steph.

When conservatives stay home, liberals win.

Period.

The problem with some self-proclaimed "principled" conservatives, is that they demand their own brand of conservatism, with every i dotted and every t crossed just like they want it to be, or they throw hissy fits and stay home, giving elections to the "real enemy."

I'll never forget being attacked on FR for putting a Mike DeWine sign in my yard (I couldn't stand him) during the 2006 Ohio Senatorial election, because DeWine was a "RINO" (i.e. only voted with conservatives 80% of the time).

Well that "perfect" conservative got his way and DeWine lost and Sherrod Brown won........and now we have the most radical, Marxist Senator in office instead.

That's why Cedric's observation is accurate regarding the "divide and conquer" strategy of the left.

There is no way to distinguish between a "perfect" conservative and a liberal troll on an open board.

They say the same things about Republicans.

Quote: steph wrote in post #19

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #8

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Counter to the Party loyalists: Graham, McCain, Snow, Lehman, Etc. The GOPe is more to blame then the enemy for the same reason traitors do more damage to you then the enemy. So Nerd has a point. With GOP still having open Primaries there is no reason to be loyal to a party where they are elected in major part by the opposition. That being said, there is no way to fix the democrat party because its too far gone, but there is still some chance to fix the Republican party by voting out the Rhinos and voting in conservatives. There is no chance to have a 3rd party representation since the rigged electoral system and state run press will not allow for it no matter how we feel or vote, at least not in the foreseeable future.

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What happens when you win primaries with unelectable candidates in the general elections? Christine O'Donnell is the perfect example of winning the primary and losing big time to a bearded marxist in the general. Mike Castle was not a great choice but he would have been one more vote in firing Harry Reid. So now the senate is stuck with a marxist instead of a far more evil GOPe.

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Funny part of this is I knew allen could not be elected. He did a sorry job before, his staff had no public out reach and he changed the tobacco payout to help his friends in the eastern part of the state. And cost me 5000.00 but because of the situation I still voted for him. But a lot of others did did not.

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #32

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Boy, do I agree with your last statement here, steph.

When conservatives stay home, liberals win.

Period.

The problem with some self-proclaimed "principled" conservatives, is that they demand their own brand of conservatism, with every i dotted and every t crossed just like they want it to be, or they throw hissy fits and stay home, giving elections to the "real enemy."

I'll never forget being attacked on FR for putting a Mike DeWine sign in my yard (I couldn't stand him) during the 2006 Ohio Senatorial election, because DeWine was a "RINO" (i.e. only voted with conservatives 80% of the time).

Well that "perfect" conservative got his way and DeWine lost and Sherrod Brown won........and now we have the most radical, Marxist Senator in office instead.

That's why Cedric's observation is accurate regarding the "divide and conquer" strategy of the left.

There is no way to distinguish between a "perfect" conservative and a liberal troll on an open board.

They say the same things about Republicans.

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So that's two seats that could have had a different outcome that would have gone a long way of keeping Harry Reid out of the Majority Leader position and the dems out of the chairs in the committees that shape and push the agenda. I don't get the reasoning for it either.

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #29

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Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #16

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #8

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Counter to the Party loyalists: Graham, McCain, Snow, Lehman, Etc. The GOPe is more to blame then the enemy for the same reason traitors do more damage to you then the enemy. So Nerd has a point. With GOP still having open Primaries there is no reason to be loyal to a party where they are elected in major part by the opposition. That being said, there is no way to fix the democrat party because its too far gone, but there is still some chance to fix the Republican party by voting out the Rhinos and voting in conservatives. There is no chance to have a 3rd party representation since the rigged electoral system and state run press will not allow for it no matter how we feel or vote, at least not in the foreseeable future.

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I agree absolutely with your assessment of the 'enemy within'. However the GOPe have shown they are just as ruthless as the Democrats when it comes to not relinquishing power and perks. They would eat their own and let a Democrat win rather than give up power. The GOPe only differ from the Dems in their window dressing.

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That is an extreme exaggeration, and therefore an inaccurate statement, algernon.

Yes, there are corrupt and ruthless Republicans, but NO different than the evil, Marxist Democrats in power now??

LUDICROUS.

That's like saying Mitch McConnell, for all his flaws, is no different from the deeply corrupt, lying, vile Harry Reid.

Or that any Republican is as corrupt as Nancy Pelosi or as radical and Marxist as Barack Obama.

What you have said may be what you feel, but it is simply not factually accurate.

The Republican party needs a lot of work. It needs an infusion of honest conservatives who will STAY that way when they get to Washington.

But there is NO comparison between the two parties. "Window dressing??"

Ridiculous.

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Just image what John McCain would have been like as president. He agreed with Obama on everything. Had McCain been elected, very little would be different - just window dressing. McCain, like Obama, was in Soros's pocket via his Reform Institute. McCain was for amnesty and open borders (except just before elections), for LOST (turning over sovereignty of our waterways to the UN), for cap and trade (because of man made 'Global Warming', endorsed Obama Care (with just a few tweaks), abandoned Mia and POW's, pushed Soros funded McCain Feingold 'campaign reform', was for bailouts for the TBTF, suported al-Qaeda terrorits in Albania and Kosova in 1990's, since the election has stated that Obama is doing a good job, and would have bent himself into a pretzel 'reaching across the aisle. Because he has an R after his name many would make excuses for is behavior.

Quote: steph wrote in post #31

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #28

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I feel more frustration with the republican leaders in Washington than anything else. They have to know that Obama is operating around them to get his way and yet we hear nothing from any of them. Maybe a token interest now & then for the camera's sake, but nothing like the outrage they should be expressing.
They are on the front to protect our constitution and they have failed at their job. I get no pleasure voting for any of them.

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The reality is as long as Harry Reid is the Majority Leader then nothing the R's want to do in furthering their agenda will happen. Why do you think 0bama is framing the sequestration issue to blame the GOP? It's so the D's can get the House back and ram the rest of his agenda through.

The fact is the R's only control 1/2 of 1/3 of the government.

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Seems to me the premise of this article contradicts this one previously posted:

The 'Right' and 'Duty' to Throw Off Unjust Government

Is the problem Government or Party?

Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #36

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #29

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Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #16

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Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #8

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Counter to the Party loyalists: Graham, McCain, Snow, Lehman, Etc. The GOPe is more to blame then the enemy for the same reason traitors do more damage to you then the enemy. So Nerd has a point. With GOP still having open Primaries there is no reason to be loyal to a party where they are elected in major part by the opposition. That being said, there is no way to fix the democrat party because its too far gone, but there is still some chance to fix the Republican party by voting out the Rhinos and voting in conservatives. There is no chance to have a 3rd party representation since the rigged electoral system and state run press will not allow for it no matter how we feel or vote, at least not in the foreseeable future.

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I agree absolutely with your assessment of the 'enemy within'. However the GOPe have shown they are just as ruthless as the Democrats when it comes to not relinquishing power and perks. They would eat their own and let a Democrat win rather than give up power. The GOPe only differ from the Dems in their window dressing.

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That is an extreme exaggeration, and therefore an inaccurate statement, algernon.

Yes, there are corrupt and ruthless Republicans, but NO different than the evil, Marxist Democrats in power now??

LUDICROUS.

That's like saying Mitch McConnell, for all his flaws, is no different from the deeply corrupt, lying, vile Harry Reid.

Or that any Republican is as corrupt as Nancy Pelosi or as radical and Marxist as Barack Obama.

What you have said may be what you feel, but it is simply not factually accurate.

The Republican party needs a lot of work. It needs an infusion of honest conservatives who will STAY that way when they get to Washington.

But there is NO comparison between the two parties. "Window dressing??"

Ridiculous.

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Just image what John McCain would have been like as president. He agreed with Obama on everything. Had McCain been elected, very little would be different - just window dressing. McCain, like Obama, was in Soros's pocket via his Reform Institute. McCain was for amnesty and open borders (except just before elections), for LOST (turning over sovereignty of our waterways to the UN), for cap and trade (because of man made 'Global Warming', endorsed Obama Care (with just a few tweaks), abandoned Mia and POW's, pushed Soros funded McCain Feingold 'campaign reform', was for bailouts for the TBTF, suported al-Qaeda terrorits in Albania and Kosova in 1990's, since the election has stated that Obama is doing a good job, and would have bent himself into a pretzel 'reaching across the aisle. Because he has an R after his name many would make excuses for is behavior.

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There are hundreds of Republicans, over 200 in DC, and many Governors, and state reps and you give John McCain as the example of why you hate Republicans.

Oy.

Let me clue you in, algernon. Conservative Republicans don't like McCain. He is NOT representative of conservatism within the Republican party.

He was a stinky candidate, who campaigned entirely against Bush (you should love him for that, right?), and lost because Republicans didn't like him much either.



Oh..........and I get really tired of the "just because he has an R after his name" meme from Republican haters.

It's not even remotely true with conservative Republicans.

But I'll tell you this, algernon........ as much as I couldn't stand McCain, I loved the country too much to stay home and let Obama win. Because your hyperbole notwithstanding, even John MCain would not be as bad as having a COMMUNIST in the WH.

I understand that you're swept up with the globalism thing, but practically speaking, John McCain loves this country more than Barack Obama does.

And Republicans aren't even remotely as bad as the radical, anti-American leftists in control of the Dem party.

You can't win this argument on facts, algernon, because the facts aren't on your side.

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #37

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Quote: steph wrote in post #31

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #28

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I feel more frustration with the republican leaders in Washington than anything else. They have to know that Obama is operating around them to get his way and yet we hear nothing from any of them. Maybe a token interest now & then for the camera's sake, but nothing like the outrage they should be expressing.
They are on the front to protect our constitution and they have failed at their job. I get no pleasure voting for any of them.

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The reality is as long as Harry Reid is the Majority Leader then nothing the R's want to do in furthering their agenda will happen. Why do you think 0bama is framing the sequestration issue to blame the GOP? It's so the D's can get the House back and ram the rest of his agenda through.

The fact is the R's only control 1/2 of 1/3 of the government.

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Seems to me the premise of this article contradicts this one previously posted:

The 'Right' and 'Duty' to Throw Off Unjust Government

Is the problem Government or Party?

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Seems to me it is both government and party, the republicans seemed heck bent on spending 5 cents less than the democraps. How many of them are trying to undo obama care, 5 or 6??

Quote: steph wrote in post #35

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #32

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Boy, do I agree with your last statement here, steph.

When conservatives stay home, liberals win.

Period.

The problem with some self-proclaimed "principled" conservatives, is that they demand their own brand of conservatism, with every i dotted and every t crossed just like they want it to be, or they throw hissy fits and stay home, giving elections to the "real enemy."

I'll never forget being attacked on FR for putting a Mike DeWine sign in my yard (I couldn't stand him) during the 2006 Ohio Senatorial election, because DeWine was a "RINO" (i.e. only voted with conservatives 80% of the time).

Well that "perfect" conservative got his way and DeWine lost and Sherrod Brown won........and now we have the most radical, Marxist Senator in office instead.

That's why Cedric's observation is accurate regarding the "divide and conquer" strategy of the left.

There is no way to distinguish between a "perfect" conservative and a liberal troll on an open board.

They say the same things about Republicans.

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So that's two seats that could have had a different outcome that would have gone a long way of keeping Harry Reid out of the Majority Leader position and the dems out of the chairs in the committees that shape and push the agenda. I don't get the reasoning for it either.

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It's not reasoning, steph. It's emotion.

Reason should tell us all to keep Harry Reid out of power.

Emotion, on the other hand, says "I want my own way!" or "He/she isn't good enough for a perfect conservative like me" and dictates that they stay home.

And when they stay home, Harry Reid wins.

I repeat............the Repubican party has problems coming out the wazoo. It is a deeply flawed party.

But in it, there are principled people, there are people who want the country to thrive economically and return to its founding principles.

There are NO such people in Harry Reid's party, and allowing them to win because we are self-centered, is a hideous choice.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #41

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Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #36

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Just image what John McCain would have been like as president. He agreed with Obama on everything.

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Not on abortion.
Not on health care.
Not on taxes.
Not on gun control.
Not on education.
Not on Iraq.

And, remember, with a President McCain the person "one heartbeat away" would've been Sarah Palin, not Joe Biden.

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Thank you for bringing up all those issues which make algernon's sweeping generalization inaccurate, Cedric.

Even though I really, really didn't like McCain, saying that he agreed with Obama on "everything" is patently false.

And I say that as a pro-life, pro-2nd amendment mother of a 2 time Iraq war vet.

Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #37

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Quote: steph wrote in post #31

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Quote: Olivia wrote in post #28

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I feel more frustration with the republican leaders in Washington than anything else. They have to know that Obama is operating around them to get his way and yet we hear nothing from any of them. Maybe a token interest now & then for the camera's sake, but nothing like the outrage they should be expressing.
They are on the front to protect our constitution and they have failed at their job. I get no pleasure voting for any of them.

---

The reality is as long as Harry Reid is the Majority Leader then nothing the R's want to do in furthering their agenda will happen. Why do you think 0bama is framing the sequestration issue to blame the GOP? It's so the D's can get the House back and ram the rest of his agenda through.

The fact is the R's only control 1/2 of 1/3 of the government.

---

Seems to me the premise of this article contradicts this one previously posted:

The 'Right' and 'Duty' to Throw Off Unjust Government

Is the problem Government or Party?

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The way the system is structured is to allow the allow the majority party to select the leadership positions for the various committees. Of course they are supposed to work within the framework of the Constitution but with the D's that doesn't happen often. They have effectively chipped away at the constraints of the Constitution with the full blessing of the voters. Give them credit. They have had a long range plan to get where they are today. We should be able to throw them out but the biggest problem with that is the ignorant electorate. So in a way it is both.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #43

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Quote: nerd wrote in post #39

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How many of them (Republicans) are trying to undo obama care...??

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Had John McCain been elected in '08, obviously, there would be no Obamacare to undo.

Yeah, that John McCain, the one you've bragged about not voting for.

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Personal attacks a side I still would not have voted for him, he made his bed. Now it you think you can force people to vote for someone keep beating your head against the wall.