My thoughts on the subject in the style of Thomas Sowell:

The difference in democrats & conservative republicans is that most conservatives are looking for a one hundred percent conservative and there's not one to be found.
A huge block of democrats will vote for a democrat if they give you enough "stuff." They could care less about the policies of their party.

Anyone that runs on the republican ticket will have to be a moderate and conservatives will have to like it or let the democrats win...again.
The media will also have to like the nominee and that's not going to happen.

A big hurdle for the republicans to overcome is the democrat/media portraying them as the party of the rich. If you have a business or work for a living & pay taxes to keep up the other half, you belong to the party of the "rich."
God help you if you believe in Capitalism. Somehow, it's become a republican word and used to describe the "rich."

How are we to overcome all these obstacles?

Quote: nerd wrote in post #60

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #58

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #57

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #55

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #48

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #45

---

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #43

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #39

---

How many of them (Republicans) are trying to undo obama care...??

---

Had John McCain been elected in '08, obviously, there would be no Obamacare to undo.

Yeah, that John McCain, the one you've bragged about not voting for.

---

Personal attacks a side I still would not have voted for him, he made his bed. Now it you think you can force people to vote for someone keep beating your head against the wall.

---

My question is (a genuine one, nerd), why would anyone ever brag about allowing Obama to fulfill the dreams of the Progressive movement and destroy the country?

Because John McCain, bad as he was, and Mitt Romney, were the only stopgaps we had to stop the complete takeover of our government by Marxists.

Why would not voting for them make you proud of yourself?

---

I like a few million others thought mccain was a big a pos as obama, and I and millions others refused to vote for his amnesty pushing butt. It was that simple. Now you should be more concerned as to why the rove moderates keep pushing moderates, they have lost how many times now. What about 3 million sit out the vote on Mit. And I voted for mit, and he was not a bit better than liberal mccain. But I do not know why you brought mit into it other than the millions that refused to vote for a moderate to liberal again. And if the gop keeps pushing this amnesty stuff and do not stop caving, they are going to lose again.

---

A moderate Mitt or McCain would have been light years better for all of us than the communist POS in office now. McCain wouldn't have let his ambassador and staff get slaughtered while watching and Mitt would have been able to at least understand the economy.

---

Nerd, if you think I should be as concerned with Karl Rove as I am with Obama/Soros/Holder/Jarrett/Ayers cabal you're sadly off-base.

Once again, you target the Republican, and not THE ENEMY.

steph is absolutely right. McCain would have been light years better than a COMMUNIST, and Mitt Romney a few light years more.

You have the wrong enemy in your sites.

YES, we need to reform the Republican party. YES, we have people in our party that are far from conservative.

But are they as vile, treacherous and evil as the leftists running the show right now? Are they anti-military, pro-abortion, pro-eugenics, anti-Constitutional, pro-Islamofascists?

It's a ridiculous premise.

You can't win this argument, nerd. Not against people who are educated and fact-based.

---

what arggument, there is no argument, the voters have voted, you see the out come, put up another moderate and you will get the same outcome.
What is the definition of people doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different out come. There is no argument.

---

Quote: algernonpj wrote in post #61

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #58

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #57

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #55

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #48

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #45

---

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #43

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #39

---

How many of them (Republicans) are trying to undo obama care...??

---

Had John McCain been elected in '08, obviously, there would be no Obamacare to undo.

Yeah, that John McCain, the one you've bragged about not voting for.

---

Personal attacks a side I still would not have voted for him, he made his bed. Now it you think you can force people to vote for someone keep beating your head against the wall.

---

My question is (a genuine one, nerd), why would anyone ever brag about allowing Obama to fulfill the dreams of the Progressive movement and destroy the country?

Because John McCain, bad as he was, and Mitt Romney, were the only stopgaps we had to stop the complete takeover of our government by Marxists.

Why would not voting for them make you proud of yourself?

---

I like a few million others thought mccain was a big a pos as obama, and I and millions others refused to vote for his amnesty pushing butt. It was that simple. Now you should be more concerned as to why the rove moderates keep pushing moderates, they have lost how many times now. What about 3 million sit out the vote on Mit. And I voted for mit, and he was not a bit better than liberal mccain. But I do not know why you brought mit into it other than the millions that refused to vote for a moderate to liberal again. And if the gop keeps pushing this amnesty stuff and do not stop caving, they are going to lose again.

---

A moderate Mitt or McCain would have been light years better for all of us than the communist POS in office now. McCain wouldn't have let his ambassador and staff get slaughtered while watching and Mitt would have been able to at least understand the economy.

---

Nerd, if you think I should be as concerned with Karl Rove as I am with Obama/Soros/Holder/Jarrett/Ayers cabal you're sadly off-base.

Once again, you target the Republican, and not THE ENEMY.

steph is absolutely right. McCain would have been light years better than a COMMUNIST, and Mitt Romney a few light years more.

You have the wrong enemy in your sites.

YES, we need to reform the Republican party. YES, we have people in our party that are far from conservative.

But are they as vile, treacherous and evil as the leftists running the show right now? Are they anti-military, pro-abortion, pro-eugenics, anti-Constitutional, pro-Islamofascists?

It's a ridiculous premise.

You can't win this argument, nerd. Not against people who are educated and fact-based.

---

I can understand your frustration at the current situation the country is in.

However there are Republicans who are anti-Military, pro-abortion, anti-constitution, and pro-Islamofascist; many of them call themselves moderates. Karl Rove loves them. McCain falls into many of these categories. Calling this a ridiculous premise does not change the fact. People resort to calling facts ridiculous, and to implying that those who disagree with them ore not educated nor fact based but running on emotion when they lack facts themselves or are experiencing cognitive dissonance. These same people also show a lack of respect for others who are equally concerned about the future of our country and sharing their observations.

Please consider what I have written. The end.

---

Quote: Olivia wrote in post #76

---

My thoughts on the subject in the style of Thomas Sowell:

The difference in democrats & conservative republicans is that most conservatives are looking for a one hundred percent conservative and there's not one to be found.
A huge block of democrats will vote for a democrat if they give you enough "stuff." They could care less about the policies of their party.

Anyone that runs on the republican ticket will have to be a moderate and conservatives will have to like it or let the democrats win...again.
The media will also have to like the nominee and that's not going to happen.

A big hurdle for the republicans to overcome is the democrat/media portraying them as the party of the rich. If you have a business or work for a living & pay taxes to keep up the other half, you belong to the party of the "rich."
God help you if you believe in Capitalism. Somehow, it's become a republican word and used to describe the "rich."

How are we to overcome all these obstacles?

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #77

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #60

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #58

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #57

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #55

---

Quote: musiclady wrote in post #48

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #45

---

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #43

---

Quote: nerd wrote in post #39

---

How many of them (Republicans) are trying to undo obama care...??

---

Had John McCain been elected in '08, obviously, there would be no Obamacare to undo.

Yeah, that John McCain, the one you've bragged about not voting for.

---

Personal attacks a side I still would not have voted for him, he made his bed. Now it you think you can force people to vote for someone keep beating your head against the wall.

---

My question is (a genuine one, nerd), why would anyone ever brag about allowing Obama to fulfill the dreams of the Progressive movement and destroy the country?

Because John McCain, bad as he was, and Mitt Romney, were the only stopgaps we had to stop the complete takeover of our government by Marxists.

Why would not voting for them make you proud of yourself?

---

I like a few million others thought mccain was a big a pos as obama, and I and millions others refused to vote for his amnesty pushing butt. It was that simple. Now you should be more concerned as to why the rove moderates keep pushing moderates, they have lost how many times now. What about 3 million sit out the vote on Mit. And I voted for mit, and he was not a bit better than liberal mccain. But I do not know why you brought mit into it other than the millions that refused to vote for a moderate to liberal again. And if the gop keeps pushing this amnesty stuff and do not stop caving, they are going to lose again.

---

A moderate Mitt or McCain would have been light years better for all of us than the communist POS in office now. McCain wouldn't have let his ambassador and staff get slaughtered while watching and Mitt would have been able to at least understand the economy.

---

Nerd, if you think I should be as concerned with Karl Rove as I am with Obama/Soros/Holder/Jarrett/Ayers cabal you're sadly off-base.

Once again, you target the Republican, and not THE ENEMY.

steph is absolutely right. McCain would have been light years better than a COMMUNIST, and Mitt Romney a few light years more.

You have the wrong enemy in your sites.

YES, we need to reform the Republican party. YES, we have people in our party that are far from conservative.

But are they as vile, treacherous and evil as the leftists running the show right now? Are they anti-military, pro-abortion, pro-eugenics, anti-Constitutional, pro-Islamofascists?

It's a ridiculous premise.

You can't win this argument, nerd. Not against people who are educated and fact-based.

---

what arggument, there is no argument, the voters have voted, you see the out come, put up another moderate and you will get the same outcome.
What is the definition of people doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different out come. There is no argument.

---

Well, there certainly isn't an argument if you refuse to look at the complexity of the situation.

Mitt didn't lose because he was a 'moderate.'

He lost because Obama is a filthy treacherous crook with a slobbering media covering for him. (And because self-proclaimed "perfect" conservatives refused to acknowledge the REAL enemy).

On a fair playing field, Mitt would have won.

And America would have a chance for survival.

---

You're arguing, nerd.

But you're arguing something that's not cogent to my point, and is a conclusion based on partial information.

Bob Dole didn't lose because he was a moderate. He was a token candidate against a Democrat in a good economy, with a media supporting the other guy, in spite of their knowing he was a sleazy creepy, valueless person.

McCain lost because of a Democrat-caused economic crash and a slobbering media covering up the radical Marxist prom king punk they wanted to win.

Same with Romney. The media continued to cover for their darling.

None of their losses proves that it was their moderation that made them lose. There are too many complexities in the situations you bring up in your argument.

Eisenhower was a moderate. Nixon was a moderate. George H.W. Bush was a moderate, and they all won.

George W. Bush was a mix of conservatism and moderation, and he won two times.

You can't win the argument that moderation is causal to the losses, even though you keep trying......

Romney sucked as a candidate. He got his ass kicked.

I read an article that talked about how he was willfully holding his fire.

Gee, that turned out great.

When he aimed his fire Candy Crowley played defense.

He shouldn't have fired only once. He should have been out there beating the president daily. He didn't do that.

He went to the Olympics to watch his wife's horse lose, instead.

Quote: Cedric wrote in post #74

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #73

---

There isn't a simple solution....

---

Sure there is.

Conservatives: Stop whining and start beating RINOs in the primaries with conservative candidates who can win in the general elections.

Problem solved!

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #56

---

Quote: truth_seeker wrote in post #50

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #23

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #19

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #8

---

Counter to the Party loyalists: Graham, McCain, Snow, Lehman, Etc. The GOPe is more to blame then the enemy for the same reason traitors do more damage to you then the enemy. So Nerd has a point. With GOP still having open Primaries there is no reason to be loyal to a party where they are elected in major part by the opposition. That being said, there is no way to fix the democrat party because its too far gone, but there is still some chance to fix the Republican party by voting out the Rhinos and voting in conservatives. There is no chance to have a 3rd party representation since the rigged electoral system and state run press will not allow for it no matter how we feel or vote, at least not in the foreseeable future.

---

What happens when you win primaries with unelectable candidates in the general elections? Christine O'Donnell is the perfect example of winning the primary and losing big time to a bearded marxist in the general. Mike Castle was not a great choice but he would have been one more vote in firing Harry Reid. So now the senate is stuck with a marxist instead of a far more evil GOPe.

---

Don't buy into that trick of the media and ruling class determining who is electable. America is still majority conservative. The GOP keeps putting up democrat-light and telling us we are wrong for not going with the rhino. YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH SANTA CLAUSE. Its insane to continue putting up so called "electable" which means ruling-class-approved candidates and then wondering why conservatives stay home and democrats/independents will still not vote for the Rino no matter how much he acts like a democrat.

---

Which is it ? Either America is still majority conservative, or you cannot compete with Santa Claus?

---

I don't think some have realized that there has been a paradigm shift. This country is not as conservative as it used to be.

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #84

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #56

---

I don't think some have realized that there has been a paradigm shift. This country is not as conservative as it used to be.

---

Says who? I travel this country a lot. I can look at detailed election maps and see that our liberal infestation is in a very tiny amount of this country and that's all urban locations. I can see the liberal press losing patrons and conservative press doing better I can see the people fleeing liberal controlled areas like they were running from the plague. IF THEY WERE THE MAJORITY THEY WOULD NOT NEED THE ILLEGAL VOTES. Look again at the first rule of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. FACT: you do not need massive vote fraud if you're the majority.....

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #84

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #56

---

Quote: truth_seeker wrote in post #50

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #23

---

Quote: steph wrote in post #19

---

Quote: Mechanicos wrote in post #8

---

Counter to the Party loyalists: Graham, McCain, Snow, Lehman, Etc. The GOPe is more to blame then the enemy for the same reason traitors do more damage to you then the enemy. So Nerd has a point. With GOP still having open Primaries there is no reason to be loyal to a party where they are elected in major part by the opposition. That being said, there is no way to fix the democrat party because its too far gone, but there is still some chance to fix the Republican party by voting out the Rhinos and voting in conservatives. There is no chance to have a 3rd party representation since the rigged electoral system and state run press will not allow for it no matter how we feel or vote, at least not in the foreseeable future.

---

What happens when you win primaries with unelectable candidates in the general elections? Christine O'Donnell is the perfect example of winning the primary and losing big time to a bearded marxist in the general. Mike Castle was not a great choice but he would have been one more vote in firing Harry Reid. So now the senate is stuck with a marxist instead of a far more evil GOPe.

---

Don't buy into that trick of the media and ruling class determining who is electable. America is still majority conservative. The GOP keeps putting up democrat-light and telling us we are wrong for not going with the rhino. YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH SANTA CLAUSE. Its insane to continue putting up so called "electable" which means ruling-class-approved candidates and then wondering why conservatives stay home and democrats/independents will still not vote for the Rino no matter how much he acts like a democrat.

---

Which is it ? Either America is still majority conservative, or you cannot compete with Santa Claus?

---

I don't think some have realized that there has been a paradigm shift. This country is not as conservative as it used to be.

---

Says who? I travel this country a lot. I can look at detailed election maps and see that our liberal infestation is in a very tiny amount of this country and that's all urban locations. I can see the liberal press losing patrons and conservative press doing better I can see the people fleeing liberal controlled areas like they were running from the plague. IF THEY WERE THE MAJORITY THEY WOULD NOT NEED THE ILLEGAL VOTES. Look again at the first rule of Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. FACT: you do not need massive vote fraud if you're the majority.....

---

Good points but I think the voter fraud is but a very ugly and potent tip of a horrific iceberg.

Voting has been mostly a futile charade for a long time, imho.