This thread is intended to begin an intelligent, coherent discussion from varying viewpoints on what is right and what is wrong with the GOP. On this board, we range from supportive Republicans, through the realm of dissatisfied Conservative, but still active Republicans to libertarian-leaning Conservatives to "everything about the GOP is evil" Libertarians.

I have been irritated that certain Republican loathers inject their emotions on threads for which the subject is not relevant.

Therefore, as a Republican who is angry with the Republican elites, their inability to be in touch with their constituents, their need to hold on to and increase their power, their out of control spending habits, their weakness in standing up to the left and to the leftist media, and their overall cowardice in doing the right thing when it takes a backbone to do it, I would like to open this thread for civil discussion of the subject.

There is no call for name-calling, either of Republicans or Libertarians in general, or of specific people posting on this forum (some will find it very difficult to post without the insults). Keep the personal emotions and rantings out of it. Just stick with opinions based on facts, avoiding hyperbolic statements from either side.

Are you an economic conservative and social liberal, or economic moderate and social conservative, or do you consider yourself to be moderate or conservative across the board?

Let's see what happens.............and perhaps we'll find we're not as far apart as a few of you think we are.....

I'll start with one thing that I think is wrong with the GOP. Pandering to interest groups. I don't believe they can have a cafeteria style party and win. I don't think they can make the LGBT groups and the Christian conservatives sit at the same table. So, I don't know why they bother trying.

The Democrats have locked that up. What do enviro-wackos and the SEIU have in common? Practically nothing. But they work together within the Democratic party towards one goal... wrestling control from the people and giving it to the State. The Democratic party carves up the spoils and doles it back to the environmentalists and the SEIU.

I don't think this is an honest way to do business.

I want things leaner, meaner and more in line with our Founding principles. I think we need to ask ourselves, "What would the Founders say?" If they wouldn't agree with something, then maybe we should reconsider it. We're floundering as it is. And my children's future is at stake.

I'll also add that I find across the board condemnation of all things Republican factually inaccurate.

I am coming at the subject as one who is strongly pro-life and has been satisfied that the Republican party has remained pro-life. I was also pleased that every single Republican voted against Obamacare and hold the Democrats entirely responsible for its being enacted. Though the Republicans have not stood as firmly as I would have liked (and I was incensed by John Roberts' bizarre, contorted decision), they are still making efforts to defund Obamacare (Paul Ryan's budget).

Also, the Republicans on the SC (other than the Roberts' boondoggle), along with the House Conservative Republicans are two thin strands holding pure Marxism at bay.

Quote: Palinista wrote in post #2

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I'll start with one thing that I think is wrong with the GOP. Pandering to interest groups. I don't believe they can have a cafeteria style party and win. I don't think they can make the LGBT groups and the Christian conservatives sit at the same table. So, I don't know why they bother trying.

The Democrats have locked that up. What do enviro-wackos and the SEIU have in common? Practically nothing. But they work together within the Democratic party towards one goal... wrestling control from the people and giving it to the State. The Democratic party carves up the spoils and doles it back to the environmentalists and the SEIU.

I don't think this is an honest way to do business.

I want things leaner, meaner and more in line with our Founding principles. I think we need to ask ourselves, "What would the Founders say?" If they wouldn't agree with something, then maybe we should reconsider it. We're floundering as it is. And my children's future is at stake.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #4

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I agree with every word of that Palinista.

But here's a question I have had for years. We send people - conservatives- to Congress, who believe in that leaner, meaner ideal, and they seem to quickly become corrupted and fall in line with a more moderate point of view (with very few exceptions).

Is there anything that can be done to help them keep the principles they go to DC with?

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #5

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #4

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I agree with every word of that Palinista.

But here's a question I have had for years. We send people - conservatives- to Congress, who believe in that leaner, meaner ideal, and they seem to quickly become corrupted and fall in line with a more moderate point of view (with very few exceptions).

Is there anything that can be done to help them keep the principles they go to DC with?

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If they spent less time in DC and more time home with their constituents it could help keep them grounded. When our nation was founded our representatives did not see their jobs in DC as full-time work. They went home to their districts to their "other jobs" and performed those duties as well.

I think if we paid these people less and demanded that they earn every single penny instead of seeing it as an entitlement they may respect us more.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #6

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But don't they determine their own pay? How do you solve the problem that they make the rules, or lack thereof, that they live by with no input from their constituents.

It seems like we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube no matter what, at this point.

We need term limits, but they'll never do that to themselves and take away their own power and cushy salaries.

(btw, I think Paul Ryan spends his time in Wisconsin and not in DC, and I found that very appealing........and rare).

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #7

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #6

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But don't they determine their own pay? How do you solve the problem that they make the rules, or lack thereof, that they live by with no input from their constituents.

It seems like we can't put the toothpaste back in the tube no matter what, at this point.

We need term limits, but they'll never do that to themselves and take away their own power and cushy salaries.

(btw, I think Paul Ryan spends his time in Wisconsin and not in DC, and I found that very appealing........and rare).

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Of course they determine their own pay. But so many of them should be ashamed of themselves. They look at this huge pot of money and believe they are entitled to it. It is not their money. It is ours. When the private sector continues to get squeezed in this economy I do not know how they can sleep at night thinking that we can afford their cushy pay. There are Democrats and Republicans that don't have a problem with it.

Every now and then someone will put up a protest amendment trying to limit pay. When that happens I applaud them.

Their pay should be means tested, in my opinion.

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Quote: musiclady wrote in post #8

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Indeed. They feel a sense of entitlement and not obligation.

Just look at the money they spend in travel. They'll go to Europe, spend a morning in meetings, and tour for days on the taxpayers dime, and yes, Republicans do it too.

And in the mean time our economy stinks and people in the private sector are truly suffering.

The problem is that I feel helpless about doing anything to fix it. We call, we write, we complain, but there aren't enough of us to make a difference.

Or are there?

Aside from the idea that we start our own country in the middle of the US, and go back to Founding Principles, can Washington ever be fixed no matter who is elected?

Even if people get their way and the Republican party dies and something Phoenix-like rises from the ashes, who actually thinks the new party will be any different from the old?

That's the point where I am now.

Feeling helpless and hopeless......

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #2

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I'll start with one thing that I think is wrong with the GOP. Pandering to interest groups. I don't believe they can have a cafeteria style party and win. I don't think they can make the LGBT groups and the Christian conservatives sit at the same table. So, I don't know why they bother trying.

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #10

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #2

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I'll start with one thing that I think is wrong with the GOP. Pandering to interest groups. I don't believe they can have a cafeteria style party and win. I don't think they can make the LGBT groups and the Christian conservatives sit at the same table. So, I don't know why they bother trying.

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That is in a nutshell a divide that is presently overtaking our Nation. The new morality is godless and the old one isn't as crafty.

The framing of the gay issue as a civil right issue plays into the new morality quite well. And how well have the old morality folk done in defending their position against this? Not very.

The accusations of "hate" and "phobic" have become powerful self-righteous tools for demonizing those who disagree with the new morality.

Has an issue ever been so successfully framed in such a judgmental, condemning way? "Agree with us or you're a homophobic hater!"

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #11

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #10

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #2

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I'll start with one thing that I think is wrong with the GOP. Pandering to interest groups. I don't believe they can have a cafeteria style party and win. I don't think they can make the LGBT groups and the Christian conservatives sit at the same table. So, I don't know why they bother trying.

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That is in a nutshell a divide that is presently overtaking our Nation. The new morality is godless and the old one isn't as crafty.

The framing of the gay issue as a civil right issue plays into the new morality quite well. And how well have the old morality folk done in defending their position against this? Not very.

The accusations of "hate" and "phobic" have become powerful self-righteous tools for demonizing those who disagree with the new morality.

Has an issue ever been so successfully framed in such a judgmental, condemning way? "Agree with us or you're a homophobic hater!"

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They have bent your will before and they'll continue to do it until you say, "Enough!"

I mean there had to have been times in the past where something happened, where someone in the GOP committed an outrage and you forgave them because that is in your nature to do so.

But every time we say, "That's okay." We give up some of our free will.

The line for me isn't as firmly drawn as others, perhaps.

Like with the Akin issue. He had to be shown the door. There is nothing noble about what he said.

But those that wanted people to ignore it because it was just words, well... that doesn't sit well with me. Because I know that some people heard those words and will never forget them.

So while pushing out Akin because of necessity do we want to embrace something at the other end?

I don't know how to do that in a graceful manner. I struggle with it. I admit it. It is hard to live in today's world, TM.

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #12

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Gay-ness is an appetite.
If someone has an affection for something that isn't good for them, then should we "celebrate" it?
When people choose to do something hurtful to themselves we can't really do that much about it. But when they ask us to give our approval and our blessing? then to move over so they can be recognized as being in equal standing? that to me is the step beyond granting them their freedom of choice.

What about the design for mankind from God? This is after all His world. And isn't that what they don't want to recognize?

[I hope I understood and responded to your comments correctly]

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #11

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Quote: ThirstyMan wrote in post #10

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Quote: Palinista wrote in post #2

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I'll start with one thing that I think is wrong with the GOP. Pandering to interest groups. I don't believe they can have a cafeteria style party and win. I don't think they can make the LGBT groups and the Christian conservatives sit at the same table. So, I don't know why they bother trying.

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That is in a nutshell a divide that is presently overtaking our Nation. The new morality is godless and the old one isn't as crafty.

The framing of the gay issue as a civil right issue plays into the new morality quite well. And how well have the old morality folk done in defending their position against this? Not very.

The accusations of "hate" and "phobic" have become powerful self-righteous tools for demonizing those who disagree with the new morality.

Has an issue ever been so successfully framed in such a judgmental, condemning way? "Agree with us or you're a homophobic hater!"

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They have bent your will before and they'll continue to do it until you say, "Enough!"

I mean there had to have been times in the past where something happened, where someone in the GOP committed an outrage and you forgave them because that is in your nature to do so.

But every time we say, "That's okay." We give up some of our free will.

The line for me isn't as firmly drawn as others, perhaps.

Like with the Akin issue. He had to be shown the door. There is nothing noble about what he said.

But those that wanted people to ignore it because it was just words, well... that doesn't sit well with me. Because I know that some people heard those words and will never forget them.

So while pushing out Akin because of necessity do we want to embrace something at the other end?

I don't know how to do that in a graceful manner. I struggle with it. I admit it. It is hard to live in today's world, TM.

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Quote: nerd wrote in post #14

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The problem with AKin is the Gop, they will not leave it along, they are using that one mans stupid statement to attack all other pro-life and religious right people. I have seen people here attack both Rush and Mark, because they both are conservative and they will not support the stupid amnesty program. So what does the GOP really stand for and what will they compromise on tomorrow. They have raised taxes and they fund obamma care which raises more taxes.

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